lenaitch
Senior Member
Tell me debating with you isn't circular.
|
|
|
Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor
- Thread starter Urban Sky
- Start date
micheal_can
Senior Member
Tell me that except for Orillia and Barrie, the rest are on the existing rail lines and could be made into a stop. And also tell me that since Via operates the Canadian as a whistle stop that someone could get on or off there....
I digress. After 4+ pages,I have shown the naysayers that the frequency of buses is there.
If the province were to do it, my expectations is that it likely wouldn't be announced till after the Northlander. Since the return is expected in 2026, my guess would be it may be said in their platform if the train is running before the 2026 election. If not, sometime before the election after that by 2030. In that time, we will learn what will happen to the HCR, and we may see the bus service between Sudbury and SSM high enough that a train goes from SSM- Sudbury - Toronto.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Ok. Between Parry Sound and Sudbury (ish) the n/b (w/b) VIA runs on CP; s/b (e/b) runs on CN. Alban and Key River are kinda-sorta near one of the lines, PauB is on CP and nowhere near CN, so I guess they could leave but not get home (or visa-versa) provided they could get to where the tracks are.. VIA uses two different stations in Parry Sound depending on direction. South of Parry Sound VIA runs on CN, so it doesn't go through MacTier, Port Severn (neither does CP for that matter) or Coldwater.
Yes, I know, they could, but they don't.
Other that you on here saying that an ONR staffer told you about the 'four bus rule', I've never seen it referred to anywhere else. Assuming it is true, there would have to be some indication from the government that it is willing to operate passenger rail outside of its traditional territory and onto trackage currently used by VIA. I imagine negotiating decent access on those two busy subdivisions would be tricky.
micheal_can
Senior Member
This argument shows me you have never ridden that bus.
This also points at a bigger, almost unreasonable problem - lack of double track. If one of the lines were double track then many of those locales would be accessible by regular service both directions.
You also seem to have never ridden the ONR bus between North Bay and Toronto. Otherwise, you'd be making those same arguments.
This is why I don't see it happening before the Northlander is back up and running. Once it is and is a success, they may look at more. From a public perspective I doubt we are going to hear of anything unless they have decided it is worth the political capital.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I gotta stop doing this. Either that or start a map so I can keep track of where the goalpost have been moved to.
crs1026
Superstar
Lol. I only check in periodically when I have the patience and stomach.
Just to offer some perspective, consider the state of Iowa, which has been planning rail passenger service for 50 years now, without actually adding any.
Flashback Friday: Test run for Chicago-to-Dubuque passenger train service held 50 years ago
Dubuquers caught a glimpse of local passenger rail service 50 years ago.
It's easy to find rail lines on the map and draw a fantasy network -
Same issues - a) the tracks are not necessarily ready for passenger trains, lots of costly upgrading, b) the money available is needed more for other things c) the tracks are needed for freight.
Iowa's transportation issues are not really that different than Northern Ontario. Distances are pretty vast, bus transportation is not that easy to find, there are airports with some air service. Most people are accustomed to driving. It's not like we are missing the point while other jurisdictions are getting on with it. The Northlander is a rare exception, and hardly the start of a rush to add more services
- Paul
micheal_can
Senior Member
Lol. I only check in periodically when I have the patience and stomach.
Just to offer some perspective, consider the state of Iowa, which has been planning rail passenger service for 50 years now, without actually adding any.
Flashback Friday: Test run for Chicago-to-Dubuque passenger train service held 50 years ago
Dubuquers caught a glimpse of local passenger rail service 50 years ago.www.telegraphherald.com
It's easy to find rail lines on the map and draw a fantasy network -
Same issues - a) the tracks are not necessarily ready for passenger trains, lots of costly upgrading, b) the money available is needed more for other things c) the tracks are needed for freight.
Iowa's transportation issues are not really that different than Northern Ontario. Distances are pretty vast, bus transportation is not that easy to find, there are airports with some air service. Most people are accustomed to driving. It's not like we are missing the point while other jurisdictions are getting on with it. The Northlander is a rare exception, and hardly the start of a rush to add more services
- Paul
I have no delusions of anything more. All I tried to point out is that one of the many metrics that brought the Northlander back is now present. There is a better chance of getting a 3rd Canadian when the LDF renewal happens, if it happens, over anything else. However, as I learn of the metrics, and as I see them happen, I do feel the need to say something about them.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Then just make that argument and move on. When you get into the weeds of all the places a train can stop for passengers, when they clearly can't, or people commuting 400km, then your posts go all to hell.
The biggest metric for the return of the Northlander is the political one, and I think a key point is the word "return". I took another look at the Northlander business case, the document that the government used to support spending the money. Buses are mentioned, but not once, that I could find, was the 'four bus rule' mentioned.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I did and everyone kept arguing against it.
lenaitch
Senior Member
That's called debating, but you don't strengthen your position by running off on tangents or grasping at straws. A staked out position stands on its own merits - or not.
micheal_can
Senior Member
There really was no tangent.
micheal_can
Senior Member
In today's budget, it was announced that the government will be starting the process of replacing the fleet of non Corridor trains.
It is a start, but I'll wait.No money has been committed. No general list, such as a total number of cars or anything like that. It is good news, but with nothing else, I'll wait for the RFP/Tender goes out to see what the substance looks like. With how the Corridor replacement is going, I am hoping that by 2035 we have a whole new fleet. Then it is a question of what happens to the existing fleet.
It is a start, but I'll wait.No money has been committed. No general list, such as a total number of cars or anything like that. It is good news, but with nothing else, I'll wait for the RFP/Tender goes out to see what the substance looks like. With how the Corridor replacement is going, I am hoping that by 2035 we have a whole new fleet. Then it is a question of what happens to the existing fleet.
Bojaxs
Active Member
Crazy to think that if Alberta follows through with it's 15 year master plan for passenger rail, it could surpass all other provinces in terms of rail connectivity.
If Alberta can pull this off, it'll ignite a rail renissance in Canada. Everyone else will want to replicate Alberta's success.
I'm currently in Edmonton and the downtown is hurting bad. A central train station with direct access to other parts of the province would definitely help to revitalize DT Edmonton.
Last edited:
crs1026
Superstar
This seems like such an unlikely sponsor - so if the sponsor is serious and this can actually be sold to rural Albertans, they may just pull this off. I'm enthused.
- Paul
- Paul
rbt
Senior Member
Scratching my head at this. I thought they gave TransPod, a hyperloop startup, exclusivity over railway from Edmonton to Calgary. They've raised nearly $1B to rollout a piece of test track in the Edmonton region. It's extremely experimental but that contract would make it difficult to build anything else.
In short, if they pull it off it'll be longer than 15 years and there will be global demand to replicate their 1000km/h network.
Last edited: