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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

The tracks between Kitchener and Georgetown are not in the best shape. Even during those hot days they slowed the train down from Georgetown. VIA Rail has capital money to do upgrades and add CTC along this line and they currently out to tender so expect improvements in the next year or two. Once that is done, expect a slightly faster train bringing that 2 hours closer to 1 hr and 30-45 because the speeds will go from up to 80 to closer to 100.

GO know this would improve service and could handle more trains. VIA is cutting trains on this line and many of us expect GO to pick up the slack in the next couple years.
 
Just out of curiosity....does anyone know what the ridership level was on Lakeshore (east or west or combined) when the decision was made to introduce all day 7 day service?
They started weekday service May 23rd 1967 (though Lakeshore West had seen CN running commuter trains since the 1800s). Hourly weekend service started the first weekend of July 1967. The decision was made before GO ever started service.

The provincial government has been promising that service would be increased to better than hourly since the early 1970s. I'm not aware of any other line that has been waiting 40 years for the government to fulfill it's promise.

There's a good history of the start-up of operations by one of the guys who was behind it here - http://historicaltextarchive.com/books.php?action=nextpre&bid=63
 
GO struggles to fill weekend trains on Barrie line



Well, this is certainly disappointing. I bet Stouffville buses carry more on the weekend, so if this "experiment" does end up being a failure, I hope it doesn't mean that they won't try it on other lines.

I think Summer was the wrong time of year for this. I expect there would be more people on weekends during the fall/winter when school, well attending hockey games, etc happen in Toronto
 
Just to be clear, I'm not against Lakeshore getting 30 minute service. I just wish more progress was being made on the other lines.

The only problem with adding even hourly service to Milton would be that it would be a decrease in service, since we see half-hourly service most of the day now. So unless they do half-hourly train service on the Milton line, it's not worth it.
 
Almost 3 actually.
First there's conductor training, then you need 2 years on the job as a conductor and finally throttle training which is 6 months min. But there's a lot of people who have there 2 years. Just can't train them all because their position needs to be replaced by CSA's moving up to be conductors. But they are only allowed to hire X amount of new CSA's at a time to replace the CSA's moving up. In the mean time at all level's there's XX amount of people off. Basically its an operational tug of war.

That seems awfully much for a position that ought really be no different than a train engineer position in another system. Where do these requirements come from?
 
They started weekday service May 23rd 1967 (though Lakeshore West had seen CN running commuter trains since the 1800s). Hourly weekend service started the first weekend of July 1967. The decision was made before GO ever started service.

The provincial government has been promising that service would be increased to better than hourly since the early 1970s. I'm not aware of any other line that has been waiting 40 years for the government to fulfill it's promise.

There's a good history of the start-up of operations by one of the guys who was behind it here - http://historicaltextarchive.com/books.php?action=nextpre&bid=63

Thanks for the link.

I found a wiki page (so usual disclaimers around accuracy) that shows, also, that the line was launched with 7 day all day service. Interestingly that link also states that....."All day GO Train service ran from Oakville to Pickering with limited rush hour train service to Hamilton. Lakeshore GO trains carried 2.5 million riders that first year and was considered to be a success."

So, back then {different times and all that} 2.5 million riders with 7 day all day access to service was a success yet (using the Georgetown/Kitchener line as an example) carrying 4.6million riders with only peak time service 5 days a week is met with comments like {paraphrasing} "get more people to ride the trains then you might get the service"....it is hard to compare then with now but that change in attitude is interesting.

As for 40 years.....I highly doubt that the Georgetown line was launched with its limited service in 1974 with the caution that "that is all that there will ever be"......given that the 7 day all day Lakeshore line was the only precedent, I am very confident that this line is also now into 38 years of promised "all day 7 day will be here 'sometime' ". ;)

I only started being interested in this around 1985....and I know I have (in a box somewhere in the basement) letters from various government and GO officials stating it will come when a) the line is upgraded and b) demand warrants.

What is frustrating, now, is that "a)" is happening and with 5 million riders on the limited service that this there now.....GO is sending out emails stating they have no plans to implement full service.
 
Just to be clear, I'm not against Lakeshore getting 30 minute service. I just wish more progress was being made on the other lines.

The only problem with adding even hourly service to Milton would be that it would be a decrease in service, since we see half-hourly service most of the day now. So unless they do half-hourly train service on the Milton line, it's not worth it.
You need to talk to CP about this, as GO hands are tied because of CP.

Yes it would be nice to add service to other lines, but need crews to do that as well the budget.

Since the Lakeshore is the heavily used line, it should get 30 minutes first and 30 years over due.

Spend a few days waiting 2 hrs for a train when the first one breaks down and you will be calling for 30 minutes.
 
You need to talk to CP about this, as GO hands are tied because of CP.

Yes it would be nice to add service to other lines, but need crews to do that as well the budget.

Since the Lakeshore is the heavily used line, it should get 30 minutes first and 30 years over due.

Spend a few days waiting 2 hrs for a train when the first one breaks down and you will be calling for 30 minutes.

Off course...someone standing on the platform at Bloor hearing that the 18:59 westbound train has broken down might argue that they would love their wait for the next train to be 2 hours rather than the 20 hours it is now. ;)

Also, as I said above, I have stopped buying the crew shortage as the reason the G-town/Kitchener line is not planned for full service. As noted, the line would not be ready for 3 years and if the will was there....that seems to be enough time to solve that problem in advance.....but there is no plan to implement full service. "additional" service but not full service.
 
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Off course...someone standing on the platform at Bloor hearing that the 18:59 westbound train has broken down might argue that they would love their wait for the next train to be 2 hours rather than the 20 hours it is now. ;)

Also, as I said above, I have stopped buying the crew shortage as the reason the G-town/Kitchener line is not planned for full service. As noted, the line would not be ready for 3 years and if the will was there....that seems to be enough time to solve that problem in advance.....but there is no plan to implement full service. "additional" service but not full service.
Please tell us where GO going to find at least 150 engineers by 2014 let alone 2015 to offer all day service you want?

There is a plan for 400+ engineers to run this Regional rail system by 2020-30 and where do you expect to find them as well replace the crew that quits or retires, let alone die???

Standing at Bloor St and finding your train missing, leaves you with many options getting to the city core. As for the 18:59 train being cancel, you have a few options to get where you want to, depending on the location. Since I don't the location, can't advised you.

As in my case, if my Burlington train is cancel going east, the option I have is to go back to Aldershot/McMaster to catch a 407 bus to Sq One, but will take longer than waiting for the next train. It will require an extra fare also. Trying to tell a client you are going to be late or end up missing a few meetings to see how fast you loose work and money to pay your staff/bills. Try going to Burlington from Port Credit if your train is cancel as well picking up the cab fare to do it.

Until the Fed's changes its policy how you can become an engineer under 2 years of service, neither GO, VIA, CP, CN and other RR will be able to fill all the seats that are needed today.

Until the rail corridor is completed by 2014/15, you can bitch all you want about service, but it not going to happen until 2015 or later depending who is power and what their policy is for transit.
 
Please tell us where GO going to find at least 150 engineers by 2014 let alone 2015 to offer all day service you want?

There is a plan for 400+ engineers to run this Regional rail system by 2020-30 and where do you expect to find them as well replace the crew that quits or retires, let alone die???

Earlier people said it takes 2.5 years to train...so, by my estimate, we are 3 years away from 2015......so if there was a will to create all day 7 day service on this line there is time to get out there and hire and train (forgetting, of course, that a couple of years have passed since the infrastructure project(s) started so if there had ever been a will there was ample time to get out there, recruit and train).

It is all moot, however, as I have said several times GO is happy to respond to inquiries with a reply that they have never had a plan to introduce all day service on this line.....that is reason there will not be....the fact that there are not enough crews now (and, on this line, no one is talking about "now") is just a convenient little brush off.

Standing at Bloor St and finding your train missing, leaves you with many options getting to the city core. As for the 18:59 train being cancel, you have a few options to get where you want to, depending on the location. Since I don't the location, can't advised you.

I would suggest that someone standing on the Bloor platform waiting for that 18:59 train is not headed for the city core and their options to get anywhere west of Etobicoke North are extremely limited and extremely time consuming and require additional cost.

As in my case, if my Burlington train is cancel going east, the option I have is to go back to Aldershot/McMaster to catch a 407 bus to Sq One, but will take longer than waiting for the next train. It will require an extra fare also. Trying to tell a client you are going to be late or end up missing a few meetings to see how fast you loose work and money to pay your staff/bills. Try going to Burlington from Port Credit if your train is cancel as well picking up the cab fare to do it.

Unlike the person stranded on that Bloor platform....there is that option of waiting for the next train. The "work arounds" are no less/no more time consuming/aggrivating/costly.

Until the Fed's changes its policy how you can become an engineer under 2 years of service, neither GO, VIA, CP, CN and other RR will be able to fill all the seats that are needed today.

Again, for the Kitchener line, the requirement to shorten the time frame is not an issue. We all get that the track improvements are needed first and that they take time. From the start of the work until opening there was lots of time to cover that 2+ years of training/service.....now there is just enough.....but, again, it is moot because they have no plan to introduce the service.

Until the rail corridor is completed by 2014/15, you can bitch all you want about service, but it not going to happen until 2015 or later depending who is power and what their policy is for transit.

But I am not "bitching" about the service.....I am "bitching" about the (not) planned for future service after the rail corridor is completed. I am also, in a minor way, "bitching" about the notion that so many people think that 30 minute off peak frequency on the Lakeshore is a higher priority than ANY off peak service at all on any other line. If they can find the crews to do this....why can't they find the crews (or use the crews they have found) to offer some off peak somewhere else (I know we can't have it on Kitchener line but I would view it positively if someone else got it in the meantime).
 
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If onerous transit operation requirements are coming from Transport Canada, then we should be talking about that. Can anyone explain what the requirements are, and whether some of them do not match what is actually needed for transit-style rail service?

And of course so many of Transport Canada's regulations are copied and pasted from the American FRA. If only they could learn to copy and paste UIC regulations...
 
And of course so many of Transport Canada's regulations are copied and pasted from the American FRA. If only they could learn to copy and paste UIC regulations...

There are rumblings that FRA is changing some of its most passenger-rail-unfriendly regulations, and not just to grant an exception to the one operator (Caltrain) who asked. I've heard nothing from Transport Canada, and it doesn't help that people who care about passenger rail service quality are not well aware of those issues, and thus are not advocating for change. (I count myself in that.)
 
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But I am not "bitching" about the service.....I am "bitching" about the (not) planned for future service after the rail corridor is completed. I am also, in a minor way, "bitching" about the notion that so many people think that 30 minute off peak frequency on the Lakeshore is a higher priority than ANY off peak service at all on any other line. If they can find the crews to do this....why can't they find the crews (or use the crews they have found) to offer some off peak somewhere else (I know we can't have it on Kitchener line but I would view it positively if someone else got it in the meantime).

Then tell them in your next email! It is because more people live on the Lakeshore Line then Kitchener Line. From Hamilton to Oshawa there is more people obviously. You bring the fact they have no plans for all day service. I honestly think they will change their minds. It's a combination of Factors including CP. This is not all on GO. Plus like SmallSpy said, it is political pressure. If Brampton's MP's actually cared they you would have gotten a different response. All I can say is start campaigning publically.

And I said before they are struggling to get the crews for lakeshore as did Vegeta. This may not even start on time.
 
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