GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[smallspy]

Metrolinx abandoned escalators not due to energy concerns but rather passenger control, they become dangerous in high passenger surge situations. You need a lot of them to disperse 1,200 people from a platform, and Metrolinx usually doesn't want to spend the money to install 3 or 4 escalators on every platform. When you try to squeeze too many people onto it there is a risk of them "piling up" at one end.

While that is true of the use of escalators at Union Station, the main reason why they got rid of escalators everywhere else in the system was because of maintenance - they complained that they were constantly breaking down and felt that they were cost more to maintain than they were worth.

Why they felt that way, and yet the TTC seemingly has little problem with their fleet is beyond me.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Platform 27]

While that is true of the use of escalators at Union Station, the main reason why they got rid of escalators everywhere else in the system was because of maintenance - they complained that they were constantly breaking down and felt that they were cost more to maintain than they were worth.

Why they felt that way, and yet the TTC seemingly has little problem with their fleet is beyond me.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

It seems pretty obvious to me that it was an indoor/outdoor thing. The TTC's escalators are indoors connecting to clean, dry platforms kept at a constant temperature. GO's were in unheated concrete stairwells connecting to outdoor platforms that spent four months a year covered in rock salt, which would get into the works and cause mayhem.

 

[smallspy]

It seems pretty obvious to me that it was an indoor/outdoor thing. The TTC's escalators are indoors connecting to clean, dry platforms kept at a constant temperature. GO's were in unheated concrete stairwells connecting to outdoor platforms that spent four months a year covered in rock salt, which would get into the works and cause mayhem.

I don't buy that.

There have been and continue to be a number of locations on the TTC system where the escalators are right at the doors to the outside world, and would thus see the same kinds of conditions that GO's escalators are claimed to have. It's arguable that any of the outdoor subway stations, for instance, see harsher conditions than any GO station escalator ever saw as they are getting blasted by cold and heat from both above and below. The City of Toronto is pretty well known for its salt use in the winter, having been one of the 5 or 6 largest institutional users of rock salt on the planet. And yet, It's never seemed to have been an undue hardship for the TTC - so why was it for GO?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[drum118]

GO/Metrolinx marches to their own beat that is out of tune with the rest of the world transit systems that use escalators in the winter months without problems in most cases.

Based on the monthly notices sent out, it surprise the elevators haven't been removed by now, though it would fly in the face of the AODA/ODA requirement. Both GO/Metrolinx have had the chance to replace elevators 100% at various stations by building ramps like they did for Barrie, part of Guelph, Bronte and Malton or walk on platforms, but chose to no to do it.

Centre platforms are the hardest to deal with and do require elevators, and that is 2 of them per platform with 2 tunnels.

To deal with Hamilton, you need a 2nd bridge or walk-in off MacNab St elevator on the west side of the bridge. Because the north platform is going to be very narrow from the looks of things, very hard to put in a single escalator, let alone a duel. It could be setup as a single to run opposite direction at peak time and it would have to be on the east side of MacNab as well one on the west side of James St.

It boils down to money.

Even though 2025 is the deadline to comply with the Act, MTO has made changes to that time frame so things are to happen sooner than 2025 related to transit. Its very possible that the requirement for elevators can be move ahead of the schedule time at an extra cost as well having escalators being part of that change. The final date is written in stone, but it a live Act that gets change or updated yearly as require.

Yes Union is an issues getting riders off the platform 10 years ago and will be more of a problem come 2020 when there are more trains arriving at the same time regardless if there are escalators there or not. Its a bitch trying to get to the stairs now. TTC has the same problem and that is the lack of access from the platforms today as well GO at the busiest stations on the line.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Escalators are expensive to build, require regular maintenance and are a potential safety hazard. Assuming that people use them in the prescribed manner (i.e., standing rather than walking on them) there are minimal speed or capacity improvements over a staircase. Also, most people could use the exercise. Those who are truly disabled can use the elevators.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

While that is true of the use of escalators at Union Station, the main reason why they got rid of escalators everywhere else in the system was because of maintenance - they complained that they were constantly breaking down and felt that they were cost more to maintain than they were worth.

Why they felt that way, and yet the TTC seemingly has little problem with their fleet is beyond me.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Escalators are expensive to build, require regular maintenance and are a potential safety hazard. Assuming that people use them in the prescribed manner (i.e., standing rather than walking on them) there are minimal speed or capacity improvements over a staircase.

I think its an over-generalization to say the TTC doesn't have escalator problems. It's clear they break down and need maintenance on a frequent basis. In fact, there used to be a moving walkway (horizontal escalator) between the Line 1 and 2 portions of Spadina station, but they ended up removing it on the basis of it breaking down too often.

From my experience, I agree that escalators are not a good idea for many stations for maintenance reasons, and also because of the dangerous pile-ons it has the potential to cause when there's a crush of people using them. I think they need to be reserved for stations with significant grades to traverse, such as James Street North.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

It may seem significant due to the 5 flights of stairs but really I doubt its much more if at all higher then the single flight of stairs up to the pedestrian bridges at Pickering, Whitby or Burlington and the track clearances would be more or less the same. If people can manage there I'm sure they can manage in Hamilton as well.

 

[ShonTron]

When I was using a wheelchair - and later crutches - after a serious knee injury, I found myself annoyed to no end after I'd get off a GO Train, head for the elevator, to see it packed full of (generalizing, but mostly accuarate) able-bodied, but overweight middle-aged women; people who actually have to use the elevators are often forced to wait for that slow hydraulic elevator to return once it disgorges its load of lazy sh*ts. This is one reason why I think escalators at this location makes sense.

 

[TOareaFan]

When I was using a wheelchair - and later crutches - after a serious knee injury, I found myself annoyed to no end after I'd get off a GO Train, head for the elevator, to see it packed full of (generalizing, but mostly accuarate) able-bodied, but overweight middle-aged women; people who actually have to use the elevators are often forced to wait for that slow hydraulic elevator to return once it disgorges its load of lazy sh*ts. This is one reason why I think escalators at this location makes sense.

within the last year (can't say exactly when) they amended the announcement about elevators when trains arrive at Union to, basically, say "please give priority at elevators to those who actually need them....not you just cause you want to".

That said, people's need for elevators is not always apparent. I have a family member who has a back ailment that really kicks in on stairs.....when we, for example, go to BMO Field there is no way she can handle the stairs up from the north patio to the west concourse....we have to explain this every time to the security guard protecting the elevator at that location and more than once got a "yeah, right!" sarcastic reply from them.

Yes, people who don't need elevators are likely using them at GO stations and, yes, people in chairs or using other mobility devices should be given priority....but we should all have a basic understanding that not all needs are actually apparent to us visually.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

within the last year (can't say exactly when) they amended the announcement about elevators when trains arrive at Union to, basically, say "please give priority at elevators to those who actually need them....not you just cause you want to".

That said, people's need for elevators is not always apparent. I have a family member who has a back ailment that really kicks in on stairs.....when we, for example, go to BMO Field there is no way she can handle the stairs up from the north patio to the west concourse....we have to explain this every time to the security guard protecting the elevator at that location and more than once got a "yeah, right!" sarcastic reply from them.

Yes, people who don't need elevators are likely using them at GO stations and, yes, people in chairs or using other mobility devices should be given priority....but we should all have a basic understanding that not all needs are actually apparent to us visually.

Nice point, thanks for sharing!

Now I know we talked about the Davenport Diamond Grade Separation after the Star posted an article, but there are new numbers in the G&M from John Lorinc:

Metrolinx hopes GO Train bridge plan will win over Toronto residents

As Metrolinx prepares to pitch Junction residents on a plan to build a 1.5-kilometre bridge to lift the Barrie GO Train line over a busy midtown freight corridor to prepare for all-day, two-way service, the agency revealed on Tuesday that the project would cost about $120-million. This compares with the estimated $650-million required to build a tunnel.

...

The bridge plan will be less disruptive to traffic than building a tunnel, as was done with three other level crossings in the city, Metrolinx officials told The Globe and Mail, noting that burying the tracks would involve closing St. Clair Avenue West and Dupont and Davenport streets during construction. The viaduct is projected to take two years to build, whereas a tunnel – which, at this location, would have to be 2.5 kilometres long – would require five to seven.

Damn, eh? You think you couldn't argue with that, but...

Some area residents felt that the provincial agency, which will hold public meetings later this spring, did not take their opinions into account on other projects involving west-end rail corridors, and they fear that will happen again. “Once Metrolinx has made up its mind, they’re doing it,” said Kevin Putnam, who co-founded the Junction Triangle community association. “Maybe [the bridge] is the best option, but residents haven’t had a chance to figure that out.”

 

[Transportfan]

Why would they need another grade separation? The just built one. Is it overcapacity already?

 

[raptor]

Why would they need another grade separation? The just built one. Is it overcapacity already?

The grade separation you are mentioning is the West Diamond grade separation, which is for the Kitchener GO line and UP Express. The new grade separation is for the Davenport Diamond, which is for the Barrie GO line.

 

[drum118]

If they built the tunnel as noted by Metrolinx, the St Clair New GO Station would be underground and then slop up to the current grade.

By starting to build the tunnel south of Bloor St, you will bring Bloor St, Dupont and Davenport back up to their original grade and freeing up more land for new development.

Because of the length of the tunnel, you will need ventilation shaft to remove the exhaust of the trains until the line electrify down the road. Who backyard gets to smell this??

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

If they built the tunnel as noted by Metrolinx, the St Clair New GO Station would be underground and then slop up to the current grade.

By starting to build the tunnel south of Bloor St, you will bring Bloor St, Dupont and Davenport back up to their original grade and freeing up more land for new development.

Because of the length of the tunnel, you will need ventilation shaft to remove the exhaust of the trains until the line electrify down the road. Who backyard gets to smell this??

If a bridge is being built, would it not create more clearance at Dupont and Davenport, and theoretically allow you to restore some of the original grade?

Another bonus about the grade separation: new connections can be made between Lappin Ave and Antler St, as well as at Paton Rd.

 

[drum118]

If a bridge is being built, would it not create more clearance at Dupont and Davenport, and theoretically allow you to restore some of the original grade?

Another bonus about the grade separation: new connections can be made between Lappin Ave and Antler St, as well as at Paton Rd.

Correct.

More plus than con