News   May 03, 2024
 1K     1 
News   May 03, 2024
 626     0 
News   May 03, 2024
 300     0 

G-20 Summit in Toronto

I have e-mailed politicians and most of the time there is a response. These people trying to get close to the politicians know that a leaders summit is the least likely place at which to get face time with these politicians. The leaders have an agenda and schedule to maintain which is why they are there with their aides in the first place. People who take to the streets with signs rather than fund raising, lobbying, and petitioning aren't going to see as many results. With out the organization (i.e. Amnesty, WWF, etc) there tends not to be measurable results.

Don't you think there's something wrong with that type of lobby politics? You shouldn't need fund raising or well connected gurus simply to have a voice. That only exacerbates the problem with our democracy today. I agree entirely that people that are well organized (re: well funded/networked) get more done, but ask yourself what groups do those tend to be (I'll give you a hint, it's not Amnesty)?

Ya, you can email politicians and get a response. But in my experience, the difficulty of the question correlates really closely with their likeliness to respond.
Having been one of those university kids some time ago, I can vouch for your description: unknowledgeable, bratty, middle class and out to smash things.

Then you reflect a little more deeply, get some more life experience and move on.
Oh I didn't realize that because you were an idiot that meant everyone else was too. I guess I should update my own life story to make sure it corresponds better with yours. How about this... I'll exchange Welland (one of the poorest places in the province) for Oakville, my OSAP loan for Daddy's trust fund and my graduate degree for a menu at the Applebees that I gained "life experience" from. Then I just need to make up some hilarious stories about me throwing tv's through my res window and then getting my parents involved when they want to expel me, and we're all set.
 
The point isn't to provide a clear cut alternative that everyone would rally around and then propose it to national leaders. It simply isn't possible to do that for a variety of very obvious reasons. It's also incredibly obvious why they choose to do this when big media and various world leaders are around. The point is to bring public attention to the agendas of these international organizations and hopefully it causes people to look into the reasons for the protest, thereby creating greater awareness. There are websites and news sites, and all sorts of material out there for people to consume once they're engaged. Just because so far that hasn't been enough to cause real change doesn't mean people should stop doing it.

Also, people protest for those who can't (whether they live in China or they're a Canadian single mother working 2 jobs). In some of these countries (as you pointed out), we're not talking about democratically elected representatives, and even in those that are democratically elected, we're looking at the very definition of plutocratic governance in most cases. We don't live in a truly democratic society, nor are we even close to any sort of democratic model of global governance. So when you take all of these points into account, it's impossible for the "everyman" to be represented at the table when these bodies meet. Because of this, people turn to being heard through their voice and through action rather than being content with what most people would consider the extent of their political options: voting.

If your only concern is about how close these people want to get to world leaders, perhaps ask yourself why they want to get close. It's not to hurt or harm anyone (maybe the odd jerk wants to "stick it to the man" but ignore him like most of the protesters do.). They want to get close to ask tough questions that aren't being asked by our media. I and my classmates had the opportunity to sit with former PM Paul Martin for 2 hours back in 2007. We grilled the hell out of him. People would die for the chance to do that. The sad thing is, people don't have the opportunity to ask the questions that they want to ask to their representatives and that to me is the biggest reason why these protests occur and suggests to me that we have some huge problems in our "democratic system".

In general, these protesters do a really crappy job at whatever it is they are doing. Because all we see on the news is stuff being lit on fire, people trashing things, and people holding signs like 'corporations are evil' 'stop globalization' which are quite frankly pretty naive.

Also to suggest that these people are protesting 'for other people in other countries who can't' is pretty egotistical to say the least. I'd think that for instance, people in China probably like globalization quite a bit. Or to suggest that these people out on the streets smashing things speaks for the single mother of 2 is laughable at best.
 
I'm not going to repeat everything I've said, because clearly people don't take into account the multiple posts I've made and prefer to just look at each one on its own.

You've already stated that you think all protesters are anarchists/communists, which speaks volumes about what you really know about the global political economy and those who oppose aspects of it. Go read some Naomi Klein (there are far better reads out there, but she's pretty accessible) and come back and post again after you've done so. Thanks.
 
Oh I didn't realize that because you were an idiot that meant everyone else was too. I guess I should update my own life story to make sure it corresponds better with yours.

You really take yourself far too seriously.

Maybe you should ratchet down the "university-class" hero anthem and consider that your political point of view is but one of many, and that yours is not naturally correct simply because you think it so. It's all so wonderful that you amuse yourself in the shower with thoughts of political theory, or that you and your friends walk the streets chanting the latest tired version of "hey hey, ho ho," but lets face it, none of this adds up to being a force for change. Rather than offering anything substantial or practical, you are a repeat protester with a collection of platitudes and slogans. You are opposed, and that's about it.

And regarding the OSAP loan, poor you. I guess that makes you part of the system now - and just like the people of Oakville.
 
Don't you think there's something wrong with that type of lobby politics? You shouldn't need fund raising or well connected gurus simply to have a voice. That only exacerbates the problem with our democracy today. I agree entirely that people that are well organized (re: well funded/networked) get more done, but ask yourself what groups do those tend to be (I'll give you a hint, it's not Amnesty)?

No. Anyone can create an organization or political party and get heard. If you get enough people in support of your point of view a $10 donation can lead to a significant campaign for change that looks organized rather than a bunch of people who stumbled out of a bar and took less than a minute to figure out what to write on their sign in magic marker. Of course you don't even need to do that. A letter writing campaign to MPs works. Every place in this country has a local representative. The point of those representatives is to listen to what matters to their constituents and articulate it to the house of commons. A signed petition delivered to each MP in each riding with names from within their riding will get things done. If your group's numbers are too small it might be because there aren't enough people who actually care about your issue or share your point of view and in that case of course the politicians and system will not listen to you... the system listens to the majority.
 
Protests....

"Also to suggest that these people are protesting 'for other people in other countries who can't' is pretty egotistical to say the least."

I tend to agree somewhat with this comment. Though some no doubt want to make a difference, I keep hearing that a lot of people just jump on this bangwagon and pat themselves on the back for acting like they care but in the end, they go shopping afterwards and buy coffee at SB.

I think the number of true activists is actually quite small and I still think they're doing this more for their own idealogical reasons rather than wanting to make things better for others elsewhere. In the end, everything is about polictics.
 
How could the protest possibly help? In order to help you need to be sitting at a table with actual plans. Nobody has a clue what any of these protesters are actually proposing. Why wait for the G20 or other political conference to show up? If 100,000 people hit the street with a message which is clear you don't need the G20 to be there. Attacking what is mostly democratically elected national representatives having a meeting together accomplishes nothing. It is good that nations are working together. In the end trying to get close to highly protected individuals and cause problems seems to be the goal more than the message. If the goal was a message there would be documents, flyers, a website, and no need to try and get near world leaders.

Oxfam Canada is planning a "People's Summit" as part of the protest. That's all the information I have about it, but I assume other organizations will be represented there each with their own documents, flyers, websites, etc. This is not one protest put on by one organization, but multiple protests converging on one location.

There are benefits to the decentralized protest. An exchange of ideas and information occurs that might not be possible at a more centralized event. For example, I had no clue about the horrendous human rights situation in Burma until I attended a protest a few years ago where an organization fighting for change there was present.

The leaders of the 20 most powerful governments in the world will be in our city for a few days. Some people will be there protesting one government in particular. Some will be there protesting the G20 itself or what it represents. Different people will have different visions and priorities, and they might not always be compatible with everyone else out there.

"Also to suggest that these people are protesting 'for other people in other countries who can't' is pretty egotistical to say the least."

I tend to agree somewhat with this comment. Though some no doubt want to make a difference, I keep hearing that a lot of people just jump on this bangwagon and pat themselves on the back for acting like they care but in the end, they go shopping afterwards and buy coffee at SB.

There are also people who have friends and family in those "other countries" who have a vested interest in seeing some change. Think Sri Lankan Tamils, Falun Gong members, etc., etc.

Let's not paint everyone with the same brush here. Sure there might be a few anarchists or egotistical univeristy students, but there will also be people who've dedicated their whole lives to fighting for a cause they believe in - people who plan these events for months, get the word out, and try to keep everything from getting out of control.

I'll probably end up at this protest. For me, it's a chance to stand up for freedom of assembly and expression in the face of what has historically been a heavy-handed and overblown response to anti-Globalization protests. Police usage of violence, etc. has been largely disproportionate during these events, which leaves me with the impression that they're more interested in suppressing dissent rather than upholding the law. This should not and cannot be tolerated in a modern liberal democracy.
 
"I tend to agree somewhat with this comment. Though some no doubt want to make a difference, I keep hearing that a lot of people just jump on this bangwagon and pat themselves on the back for acting like they care but in the end, they go shopping afterwards and buy coffee at SB."

First, I think we all need to admit that everything we do, I mean everything, ultimately is to satisfy our own devices. At the core people do not protest or give to charity or donate their time or care about others for any other reason than it satisfies their own feelings and intentions.

Second, we need to accept this as OK. It is OK that we care about something or do things in the name of caring about people to benefit how we feel ourselves. To help yourself in such a way as to benefit others I think is the essential goal in life.

Third, I have come to appreciate more and more how different our perspectives are at different points in the human life cycle. I think we also need to appreciate that this is OK as well. Young people battling police in the streets because they read some books and think they understand the world, that's OK. Old people resistant to change because their rut of experiencial learning cannot allow them to deviate course, that is OK too.
 
Anything and everything :) then gauge peoples reactions, see if they're upset I'm protesting anything for whatever reason, then we'll see how much all those patriotic cheering people actually know what they're cheering about.

Here's a protest sign that would suit the majority of them to a T.

"Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage!"
 
Are the clubs in this area really such a negative that Lord Vaughan is making it seem?

I doubt it. I just think he and a smaller group he represents in his ward just want the clubs gone.
 
I doubt it. I just think he and a smaller group he represents in his ward just want the clubs gone.

That and the fact that it would do wonders to his future mayoral campaign out in the suburbs to be seen as the slayer of the club district.

The main issue is that, agree or not, he believes that the downtown core should be a peaceful family residential neighbourhood. I disagree with that view. It's further manifested in him saying that Downtown Toronto was an inappropriate place to host a major international event like the G20.
 

Back
Top