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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

nfitz said:
Oh? Hadn't heard this. Presumably a new service utilizing long-existing express tracks?
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That's the route Amtrak trains take from Boston and Hartford on the Northeast Corridor. I didn't hear about this before either. I imagine that the New Haven Line trains can then stay on overhead power ito Penn Station than make the required switch to third rail to get into Grand Central.
 
Socknacki has a lot of cojones to announce his desire to cancel the Scarb Subway...not to mention provides a hefty amount of ammo for the incumbent to use in his divisive non-truths to garner support in Scarb.

I'm 100% in favour of elevated light RT, but at the time know that the Scarboro Subway has a lot of socio-political importance. It essentially provides the former borough with enough subway length to nullify the notion of unequal subway coverage and suburb vs downtown "unfairness". That being said, is there a consensus among transit enthusiasts as to what could be done to the elevated RT if the cost difference with the subway were put towards extending/or branching the S(L)RT? Perhaps a branch along Eglinton to Kingston Rd?
 
44 North said:
Socknacki has a lot of cojones to announce his desire to cancel the Scarb Subway...not to mention provides a hefty amount of ammo for the incumbent to use in his divisive non-truths to garner support in Scarb.

I'm 100% in favour of elevated light RT, but at the time know that the Scarboro Subway has a lot of socio-political importance. It essentially provides the former borough with enough subway length to nullify the notion of unequal subway coverage and suburb vs downtown "unfairness". That being said, is there a consensus among transit enthusiasts as to what could be done to the elevated RT if the cost difference with the subway were put towards extending/or branching the S(L)RT? Perhaps a branch along Eglinton to Kingston Rd?
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re-spending the money is not part of his plan. He seems to be going with the "I can provide rapid transit to more people in Scarborough AND cut the new $1billion tax brought in by Rob Ford".

Politicially it is an interesting stance because it takes a shot right at both of the declared major candidates.....Ms Stintz gets hit with her "flip flop" on mode of transit (she previously endorsed the LRT over subways) and Mr Ford gets nailed with a flip flop on his not raising taxes stance.
 
TOareaFan said:
re-spending the money is not part of his plan. He seems to be going with the "I can provide rapid transit to more people in Scarborough AND cut the new $1billion tax brought in by Rob Ford".

Politicially it is an interesting stance because it takes a shot right at both of the declared major candidates.....Ms Stintz gets hit with her "flip flop" on mode of transit (she previously endorsed the LRT over subways) and Mr Ford gets nailed with a flip flop on his not raising taxes stance.
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Agreed. I thought this was a very clever political move. Defeating Ford is the primary objective, of course, but defeating Stintz is also useful, since she's a nuisance candidate who only serves to siphon away votes from stronger, anti-Ford candidates.

Axing the Scarborough subway is riskier than, say, axing a 905 transit project because Scarberians are more attached to transit, but I still think it's a useful tactic because (1) you can get elected even without any support in Scarborough (Scarborough is not an election killer, like losing Ontario federally); (2) The optics of subway really change once people are confronted with the fact that you can't have it without a major tax hike, and, (3) most of the people who would vote for Ford in Scarborough care more about taxes than subways, anyway.
 
TOareaFan said:
Politicially it is an interesting stance because it takes a shot right at both of the declared major candidates.....Ms Stintz gets hit with her "flip flop" on mode of transit (she previously endorsed the LRT over subways) and Mr Ford gets nailed with a flip flop on his not raising taxes stance.
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Meh. I'm no fan of Stintz, but it's safe to say that she never fully flip-flopped or endorsed LRT over subways. It's just that she didn't endorse Ford's non-plan for Eglinton, and his ignoring of the issue regarding what to do with the decrepit SRT. She had to bring back TC in order to open up the debate.
 
Hipster Duck said:
Agreed. I thought this was a very clever political move. Defeating Ford is the primary objective, of course, but defeating Stintz is also useful, since she's a nuisance candidate who only serves to siphon away votes from stronger, anti-Ford candidates.

Axing the Scarborough subway is riskier than, say, axing a 905 transit project because Scarberians are more attached to transit, but I still think it's a useful tactic because (1) you can get elected even without any support in Scarborough (Scarborough is not an election killer, like losing Ontario federally); (2) The optics of subway really change once people are confronted with the fact that you can't have it without a major tax hike, and, (3) most of the people who would vote for Ford in Scarborough care more about taxes than subways, anyway.
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For it to have any chance of positive impact, he has to move the dialogue away from "axing".....that is a real negative term and it is hard to chop your way to an election win. He has to convince enough Scarborough residents that he is simply bringing back the appropriate RT option for the most people while selling the tax cut elsewhere.

If he can do all that without having to explain why it makes sense to hand money back to the federal government that was going into the subway he would rank as a pretty astute politician.

All that said, transit in Scarbororough will only be one of the issues in the election...it just seems to me like an interesting first pitch.
 
Would the province even allow this? He could revert the taxes I guess but then we would just return to Murray's subway idea, which is horrid.
 
Hipster Duck said:
Agreed. I thought this was a very clever political move. Defeating Ford is the primary objective, of course, but defeating Stintz is also useful, since she's a nuisance candidate who only serves to siphon away votes from stronger, anti-Ford candidates.
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At present, Stintz is probably the strongest challenger of Ford. Maybe, Chow is on par with Stintz, but not anyone else.

Hipster Duck said:
Axing the Scarborough subway is riskier than, say, axing a 905 transit project because Scarberians are more attached to transit, but I still think it's a useful tactic because (1) you can get elected even without any support in Scarborough (Scarborough is not an election killer, like losing Ontario federally);
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Yes, but only with strong support in all other boroughs.

Hipster Duck said:
(2) The optics of subway really change once people are confronted with the fact that you can't have it without a major tax hike, and, (3) most of the people who would vote for Ford in Scarborough care more about taxes than subways, anyway.
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Property taxes are distributed quite unevenly amongst the voters. Renters do not pay them at all (at least directly), and for owners of inexpensive houses, it is a small absolute raise anyway. There are quite a few Ford supporters amongst both those groups.
 
Rainforest said:
At present, Stintz is probably the strongest challenger of Ford. Maybe, Chow is on par with Stintz, but not anyone else.
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Why would you say this? All the polls show Stintz doesn't have a hope in hell, unless absolutely no other serious candidates enter the race. Sure, she bought herself some name recognition with all those billions of our money, but she would lose to Chow, Tory, and quite possibly to Ford too. The only way she'll have an impact is if she's the spoiler who splits the anti-Ford vote and gets him re-elected. Kind of pathetic, really.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Would the province even allow this? He could revert the taxes I guess but then we would just return to Murray's subway idea, which is horrid.
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Plus we would lose the $660M federal contribution. (although they may allow it to be used on another project - but there is that uncertainty).
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
They haven't even done the EA yet have they? Who knows. Maybe Wynne would like to save money.
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The provincial contribution would be unchanged. The difference would be in the City and Federal contribution. Without even being involved in the debate, Harper and Flaherty would save the money.
 
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