Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[rbt]

So cancelling the subway would cost very little then.

Some of the costs of cancelling the LRT will still have to be eaten by the city, even if those plans are restarted.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Plus we would lose the $660M federal contribution. (although they may allow it to be used on another project - but there is that uncertainty).

We won't lose that cash, it was actually approved in the last federal budget but was labelled as general infrastructure spending. The money can be redistributed to other capital projects like roads or the public housing repair backlog.

 

[rbt]

Plus we would lose the $660M federal contribution. (although they may allow it to be used on another project - but there is that uncertainty).

Not very likely. That money, AFAICS, comes from a Canada wide stimulus fund package with rules stretched to allow it to be used on the subway. It's not a special/specific gift.

Toronto can use that money on anything in the short-term including roadway/bridge fixes, sewer work, subway tunnel/bridge maintenance, or perhaps even platform doors for the Yonge line.

 

[gweed123]

We won't lose that cash, it was actually approved in the last federal budget but was labelled as general infrastructure spending. The money can be redistributed to other capital projects like roads or the public housing repair backlog.

If it has to be distributed somewhere other than the Scarborough Subway, my vote is for one of these 3 (in order of preference):

1) DRL
2) GO Electrification
3) Eglinton Western LRT extension

I would suspect #2 would be the most politically attractive for the Feds, because it can be both a 416 and a 905 investment with the same money.

 

[TOareaFan]

Plus we would lose the $660M federal contribution. (although they may allow it to be used on another project - but there is that uncertainty).

Whether or not they would lose the federal money should not be the primary (or even close) consideration. It really should be (for Toronto) about is subway with less stops better than the LRT with more stops....and if it is, is it enough better to warrant spending $1 billion (+/-) of Toronto money to make the step up.

 

[innsertnamehere]

As I said earlier, I don't think the LRT is an option anymore. It's more of a choice between Murray's subway and the approved subway.

 

[Palma]

Well the assumption is the Liberals will win the election. If either PC or NDP, then that changes things. Besides what money could have possibly been already spend on the subway for the RT replacement. It was just council that approved the subway and thats it - a subway with 2 stops makes no sense versus an LRT with 7 stops. The problem is it needs to be repeatedly explained that way and not the Scarborough needs subways propaganda that is constantly out there, then gets picked up by the media and is repeated over and over again as if its a given.

 

[salsa]

We won't lose that cash, it was actually approved in the last federal budget but was labelled as general infrastructure spending. The money can be redistributed to other capital projects like roads or the public housing repair backlog.

But what we will lose is whatever credibility we have left. I don't know why anyone should give money to Toronto anymore when it can't stick to a transit plan for 2 freakin months.

 

[picard102]

Whether or not they would lose the federal money should not be the primary (or even close) consideration. It really should be (for Toronto) about is subway with less stops better than the LRT with more stops....and if it is, is it enough better to warrant spending $1 billion (+/-) of Toronto money to make the step up.

Or a subway with less stops, having a higher ridership, than the LRT with more stops and lower ridership.

 

[BurlOak]

That being said, is there a consensus among transit enthusiasts as to what could be done to the elevated RT if the cost difference with the subway were put towards extending/or branching the S(L)RT? Perhaps a branch along Eglinton to Kingston Rd?

I drew up some options a short while ago.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Well the assumption is the Liberals will win the election. If either PC or NDP, then that changes things. Besides what money could have possibly been already spend on the subway for the RT replacement. It was just council that approved the subway and thats it - a subway with 2 stops makes no sense versus an LRT with 7 stops. The problem is it needs to be repeatedly explained that way and not the Scarborough needs subways propaganda that is constantly out there, then gets picked up by the media and is repeated over and over again as if its a given.

Well it's a 3 stop subway, and the amount of stops doesn't mean it can't be an important and effective extension.

Pcs will mandate a subway, and I don't think the NDP have much of a chance.

 

[Adjei]

What makes this think the province who is contributing the most money wants LRT?

 

[rbt]

Well it's a 3 stop subway, and the amount of stops doesn't mean it can't be an important and effective extension.

Pcs will mandate a subway, and I don't think the NDP have much of a chance.

PCs can mandate a subway but they'll have a hard time extracting $1B + overruns from Toronto if the mayor of the day decides to vocally oppose it. They could shuffle Finch funding but that undoes a signed agreement which would cause them other problems (reclaiming funds for Toronto's rearranging of projects).


Politically, it probably would not be good for the PCs to have a gas-plant sized scandal right out of the gate and to be seen as meddling (they've frequently said the liberals should have stayed out of the decision process; do what municipalities want).

 

[innsertnamehere]

As I said, if the city pulls the money they will just build Murray's version.

 

[rbt]

As I said, if the city pulls the money they will just build Murray's version.

Liberals sure. But I find it highly improbable the PCs would build something the press called "the Murray plan".

It would be an interesting pickle for the PCs at very least.