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Church-Wellesley Village

dt_toronto_geek said:
That corner became downright dangerous in the last two summers the benches were there, I know, I used to sit with friends there at night in the summer - a lot. We stopped going. I saw assaults, robberies and fights first hand, including a guy who was being harassed for something then got a bottle smashed over his head. One fellow who was a neighbour on my floor when I lived at Alexus had the tar kicked out of him coming back from picking up groceries at night, with no provocation & security was standing right outside when it happened. So we're talking about the Board of Alexus that doesn't want benches back, not the residents in general.
As for the Parklets they really weren't a success, they didn't get as many businesses participating as they had hoped and they were also a problem later at night with street kids causing problems. The plan was for them to go on the west side this summer, but with the street being torn up starting in August that would have only give them about a month this summer which isn't worth the expense.
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Funny, I go to the Village all the time and I never saw any of that. In fact, I used to go for coffee at Timothy's at least 2 or 3 times a week and I never saw any violence at all. I walk in that area almost every day and the Village is safer than it's ever been. (I've been going to Church Street since 1980) If there was a serious problem with drugs and violence, why can't police take care of that? I think this is just an excuse to not spend money on Church Street and basically do nothing to improve it. The Gay Village is no more dangerous than any other part of Toronto. People just like to exaggerate, when it suits their purposes.

OK, forget about Alexander Street. Where are they spending money to make any part of that area more pedestrian friendly? I don't see any public spaces created anywhere along that strip or any major improvements in the area. The small improvements for World Pride are a joke.
 
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I have to agree, I'm down there at least once a week if not twice, of course your insight would be more accurate but I have never witnessed ... anything ... am I just not looking for the right thing ?
 
If we're not going ahead with the corner Reno, then some bike posts should be reinstalled. Several were removed during utility work and sidewalk replacing and now there are inadequate bike posts in front of the Alexus.
 
Torontovibe said:
Funny, I go to the Village all the time and I never saw any of that. In fact, I used to go for coffee at Timothy's at least 2 or 3 times a week and I never saw any violence at all. I walk in that area almost every day and the Village is safer than it's ever been. (I've been going to Church Street since 1980) If there was a serious problem with drugs and violence, why can't police take care of that? I think this is just an excuse to not spend money on Church Street and basically do nothing to improve it. The Gay Village is no more dangerous than any other part of Toronto. People just like to exaggerate, when it suits their purposes.

OK, forget about Alexander Street. Where are they spending money to make any part of that area more pedestrian friendly? I don't see any public spaces created anywhere along that strip or any major improvements in the area. The small improvements for World Pride are a joke.
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I live right near the corner of Alexander and Church, and I occasionally see crime on this corner as well. Usually around 1-2am.
 
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What was the point of spending thousands of dollars of tax payer's money on the Alexander Wood Statue and putting it on Alexander Street, if that area is not used as public space? Don't monuments of that size usually go into gathering places for the public? So we can walk by the monument and take a quick look but we are not allowed to enjoy that public space? And that makes sense to Kristyn Wong-Tam?

That makes no sense at all to me and I will be sure to call Wong-Tam's office to express my disappointment.


Now some good news, Tegan and Sara will be performing at the closing ceremonies of World Pride 2014. (June 29th, at Dundas Square)


http://dailyxtra.com/toronto/news/tegan-and-sara-close-worldpride-toronto
 
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Torontovibe said:
Funny, I go to the Village all the time and I never saw any of that. In fact, I used to go for coffee at Timothy's at least 2 or 3 times a week and I never saw any violence at all. I walk in that area almost every day and the Village is safer than it's ever been. (I've been going to Church Street since 1980) If there was a serious problem with drugs and violence, why can't police take care of that? I think this is just an excuse to not spend money on Church Street and basically do nothing to improve it. The Gay Village is no more dangerous than any other part of Toronto. People just like to exaggerate, when it suits their purposes.
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Yip, I made it all up and exaggerated to slam my own neighbourhood, to suit my purpose.
 
dt_toronto_geek said:
Yip, I made it all up and exaggerated to slam my own neighbourhood, to suit my purpose.
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No, but a poster above (who also lives in the area) agreed with you but mentioned its late at night, which would make sense I personally wouldn't ever have seen.

Is the BIA looking at anything to improve the situation or is it something only more policing can help with ? Also any theories as to why it'd be getting worse ?
 
It would have been nice for some sort of legacy project for this neighbourhood as a commemoration of world pride.
 
taal said:
No, but a poster above (who also lives in the area) agreed with you but mentioned its late at night, which would make sense I personally wouldn't ever have seen.

Is the BIA looking at anything to improve the situation or is it something only more policing can help with ? Also any theories as to why it'd be getting worse ?
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I also indicated things I've witnessed and heard about were at night, late at night can be a little edgier when few people are out on the street. I see the Bay Street corridor has more crime than the Yonge & C+W area, which is perplexing.
There have been problems with crime since at least the 80's, from time to time it tends to concentrate itself and then spread out again after an area is dealt with in some fashion. Cawthra Park has had it's share of problems at night (but essentially problem free the previous two summers so far as I can see), Mutual Street between Maitland & Carlton before Radio City condos, in front of Second Cup (late 90's/early 00's), Church/Alexander etc. A lot of kids show up once the weather warms up and go on their way by Sept./Oct., don't know where they come from or where they go, and then there are random troublemakers wandering the streets all year. From what I see, drugs are the core problem around here (taking/selling/buying).
 
dt_toronto_geek said:
That corner became downright dangerous in the last two summers the benches were there, I know, I used to sit with friends there at night in the summer - a lot. We stopped going. I saw assaults, robberies and fights first hand, including a guy who was being harassed for something then got a bottle smashed over his head. One fellow who was a neighbour on my floor when I lived at Alexus had the tar kicked out of him coming back from picking up groceries at night, with no provocation & security was standing right outside when it happened. So we're talking about the Board of Alexus that doesn't want benches back, not the residents in general.
As for the Parklets they really weren't a success, they didn't get as many businesses participating as they had hoped and they were also a problem later at night with street kids causing problems. The plan was for them to go on the west side this summer, but with the street being torn up starting in August that would have only give them about a month this summer which isn't worth the expense.
Click to expand...


Were they gay bashings you saw or was it drug dealers attacking their clients? Who was doing the violence and how badly were people attacked/beaten? I'm curious because I have not seen it myself and none of my friends who live in the Village, (one in the 484 Church Street co-op, right across the street) have told me about any violence. My friend's bedroom looks right over that square, where the Wood monument is.

If the removal of the benches, removed the gay bashers or drug dealers, won't they just move to another part of the Village and keep attacking gays?

So, do you feel safer now with less people on that corner? I assume you don't believe that more eyes on the street makes it safer?

How are you or I safer, now that Alexander has few people sitting or hanging out in that area, putting eyes on the street? I don't feel safer now, do you? Why not have the police do their job, instead of removing the only public space along Church Street?

Is Church Street a better place, now that it has no public gathering space fronting Church Street? It's not better for me!
 
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DTowner said:
Information Pillar? You mean those advertising street-billboards that block pedestrian traffic? Those?
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I hate those things. But! There are smaller pillars that have been cropping up around town – they have a map & points of interest, but no billboard. They're much, much less obtrusive and actually useful. Maybe they mean one of those?
 
Torontovibe said:
Were they gay bashings you saw or was it drug dealers attacking their clients? Who was doing the violence and how badly were people attacked/beaten? I'm curious because I have not seen it myself and none of my friends who live in the Village, (one in the 484 Church Street co-op, right across the street) have told me about any violence. My friend's bedroom looks right over that square, where the Wood monument is.

If the removal of the benches, removed the gay bashers or drug dealers, won't they just move to another part of the Village and keep attacking gays?

So, do you feel safer now with less people on that corner? I assume you don't believe that more eyes on the street makes it safer?

How are you or I safer, now that Alexander has few people sitting or hanging out in that area, putting eyes on the street? I don't feel safer now, do you? Why not have the police do their job, instead of removing the only public space along Church Street?

Is Church Street a better place, now that it has no public gathering space fronting Church Street? It's not better for me!
Click to expand...

If you were there you would have seen the problems develop in the last couple of years before the benches were removed, and additional lighting added.
I don't disagree that 'eyes on the street' can't help deter some crime and keep streets safer, but in some cases we are talking about kids tricked out on crack or meth, I'm not so sure they care about who is watching though I won't pretend to know what those drugs do to people when high. I've seen security in my building keeping the drug kids out and let me tell you, they can get friggen' scary. I also miss the benches. They were a great gathering spot by day and night for well over a decade, however by late evening/early morning the corner often became downright dangerous. I don't know what the exact cause of violence was, I already noted what I saw with my own eyes, what happened with my former neighbour and we stopped hanging out there at night because it became cause for anxiety, which was no fun. I also heard other stories, though I can't validate them and we read the stories in Xtra! about the ongoing problems at Church & Alexander (including noise). I'm just calling it as I saw it.
 
^^ If I was there? I'm there all the time.

I've been going to the Gay Village since the 1980's and I have seen very little violence there. Back in the 80's when bars were a lot more seedy (long before homosexuals became respectable) I saw all of 2 minor bar fights but no bashings on the street. Since the 90's I have not seen a single fight in a bar or any fighting on the street. Gay people just aren't fighters. Church Street is my second home and I think it's a pretty safe place. Half of my friends live in the Village, so I go there a lot, to visit them and socialize with my friends. I still go to bars about 2 times a month but I also go for walks through the Village and I frequently go at night. After going to the bars, I usually go out to eat with friends, so I'm frequently heading home at 4 am and I have not seen any fights or people being physically attacked. Of course, if I saw that happen, I'd call the police and try to stop it, if possible.

The Gay Village has a lot of seedy drug dealers and troubled people. The 519 has programs to help them out, as well as Progress Place, so it's no surprise that they are attracted to the area but for the most part, they just walk around, make noise and sell their drugs. (they look scarier than they are) Gay party boys, like their drugs, so of course, dealers are there to take advantage of that. Just because those benches have been removed, it doesn't mean that the drug dealers have left the Village. They still roam up and down the street doing deals. I really don't get how moving things around changes anything and I really don't see the dealers as that big of an issue. Wherever there is night clubs and party people, there will be drug dealers selling them what they want.

So far, I haven't seem any signs of violence. I'm not saying it never happens but as far as I'm concerned, it's not a serious problem or I'm sure I'd have seen numerous violent incidents. (considering how often I go there) You obviously see things differently. All I know, is that the Village lost public space and in my books, that is never a good thing. I used those benches, so it's a loss for me. I guess I'll need to find a new place in the Village to talk and hang out with my buddies. (but I'm still gonna bitch about it, especially to Wong-Tam)
 
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