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Chinatown...Death of a Neighbourhood

Though as I think of it, miketoronto *does* have a point re Calgary (or Vancouver, or Montreal et al)--though as usual, it's almost by accident. But it's not so much the retail idea of Chinatown, as the ceremonial--that is, the sense of the Chinatown as a centre of indigenous culture. With gates, gardens, all such trappings.

The weird thing about the Dundas-Spadina Chinatown that nobody's mentioned is that over its decades of development, it's been so thoroughly mercenary. It's been all about the retail, the private enterprise...and nobody, no benevolent souls, thought of incorporating a "cultural" element. With that in mind, no wonder there's that sense of doldrums. (Interestingly, there's been more effort t/w that end at the Broadview/Gerrard Chinatown.)

some interesting points here. i think the biggest difference between the chinatowns of montreal, calgary, vancouver and toronto is that the first three will always exist whereas toronto's is, essentially, just another immigrant neighbourhood.

toronto's chinatown is only the product of a 1960s era shift from the original one to the east. by contrast, vancouver's chinatown is as old as the city itself: it has always existed as chinatown. it has a century-year old history of benevolent associations, businesses, family, clan and community associations, distinctive architecture and so forth. even if those things because irrelevant to the greater chinese community, they still exist as permanent and totally organic markets of an old community.

vancouver's chinatown has already been marginalized. it's a tourist attraction and it draws some people from the suburbs and immigrant neighbourhoods in east vancouver, but it is totally incidental to the chinese community except as a cultural beacon. vancouver is so chinese that a large parts of the metropolitan area -- vancouver, burnaby, richmond, coquitlam -- functions as an enormous distended chinatown of varying intensity. nobody needs to go to chinatown for daily necessities or a bite to eat unless they work or live there. (the T&T supermarket mentioned earlier in this thread is actually on the fringes of chinatown and caters more to downtown condo-dwellers than chinatown residents.) every chinese shop and cantonese- or mandarin-language service you need can be found throughout the city, from bookstores to rental car agencies to supermarkets.

yet chinatown remains and it will always be nominally chinese, because of the community centres, the tourist appeal, the social housing, the old age homes and so on. it's too engrained in vancouver's history not to be chinese.

in toronto, on the other hand, what permanent markers will remain of the chinese presence? spadina/dundas has never seemed like a chinatown to me, not in the traditional sense. it feels more like a typical immigrant neighbourhood, one that could just as easily be little somalia in a generation's time. there's nothing wrong with that; in fact, it's exciting for all the reasons people have mentioned here.

Anyone who's been to Calgary lately and "knows" its Chinatown(s?), please remind me.

calgary's chinatown remains vibrant. its streetlife is pathetic compared to montreal's chinatown (which is the same size) yet, ironically, it manages to be more dynamic and less superficial as a functional neighbourhood. montreal's chinatown is busy and pretty, with picturesque old people sitting in all the right places, but it lacks the variety and quality of bakeries, bootleg DVD/CD shops, bookstores, cafes and dessert places that can be found in calgary's chinatown. its supermarkets aren't as good as those in montreal, though.

calgary being calgary, its suburban equivalent to chinatown is located directly across the bridge from chinatown. "suburban" is a bit of a stretch, i admit, since there is streetside retail and it's a century-old neighbourhood. but it's essentially an auto-oriented colony with no relation to the surrounding residential area. there are two large chinese supermarkets, many other shops and services and a handful of restaurants.

further out, in the northern suburbs, there is a bona fide asian mall with a T&T. the mall is small but the T&T is large. there are random chinese businesses scattered around the northeast and northwest of the city, which is where a large part of the chinese community lives. "international avenue" in the east is a long collection of strip malls filled almost entirely with immigrant businesses, scarborough-style. it's very polyglot but not very chinese, although i mention it because there are some large pan-asian supermarkets there.

so yes, calgary has the same suburbanizing trend as toronto, especially since the demographic makeup of its chinese community is so similar (mostly HKers with mainlanders now arriving). it's like a miniature toronto in that sense.

montreal is probably unique because its chinese community is so dramatically different than what's found in toronto, calgary or vancouver. overall, it's very dispersed and is only especially noticeable in côte-des-neiges (pan-ethnic immigrant neighbourhood) and brossard (south shore suburb) with emerging chinese neighbourhoods downtown (students and recent immigrants) and in verdun (mainlanders arrived within the past five years). the ethnic makeup is different, too, biased more towards mainlanders and vietnamese-chinese instead of hong kong chinese, who tended to have come in the 1970s and 80s but bypassed montreal in the 1990s.
 
From statscan, interpreted by me:

Immigration to Toronto, 1996-2001
Place of Birth, grouped according to my whims

India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka 101,260
China/HK 73,090
Europe 70,225
Middle East 42,445
Other East Asia 35,120
Caribbean 30,455
Africa 22,755
South America 16,755


In more detail:
Caribbean "30,455"
South America "16,755"
Western Europe "8,605"
Eastern Europe (not incl. Russia) "31,350"
Russian Federation "13,980"
Southern Europe "16,290"
Africa "22,755"
West Central Asia "10,360"
Iran "15,510"
Middle East "16,575"
"China, People's Republic of" "54,930"
Hong Kong "18,160"
"Korea, South" "12,025"
Philippines "23,095"
India "51,695"
Pakistan "30,170"
Sri Lanka "19,395"
OTHER "23,400"
 
some interesting points here. i think the biggest difference between the chinatowns of montreal, calgary, vancouver and toronto is that the first three will always exist whereas toronto's is, essentially, just another immigrant neighbourhood.

toronto's chinatown is only the product of a 1960s era shift from the original one to the east. by contrast, vancouver's chinatown is as old as the city itself: it has always existed as chinatown. it has a century-year old history of benevolent associations, businesses, family, clan and community associations, distinctive architecture and so forth. even if those things because irrelevant to the greater chinese community, they still exist as permanent and totally organic markets of an old community.

Well, an interesting question might be: why *didn't* Toronto develop that kind of well-developed Chinatown cultural infrastructure? IIRC even the Bay/Dundas Chinatown was largely "commercial"; and I don't know what was plowed down by City Hall/NPS--it all seems to be a cipher.

Perhaps it emanated from the ruling socio-political culture, the Family Compact, the Orange Order, all of that--y'know, parsimony reflective of the fact that "the Chinaman" was regarded as a disposable "other"...
 
I don't know what was plowed down by City Hall/NPS
Toronto's worst slum:
city-hall-wardW.jpg
 
Off topic, but I've been looking at the display of old pictures at City Hall of the building's construction. They're just to the right of the entrance in the Cafe on the Square hall, if anybody's interested. Anyway, I noticed that the demolition of the Registry Building was completely gratuitous. It didn't interfere at all with either the City Hall building or NPS. They're using its site now as a parking garage entrance and children's daycare playground.
 
"and I don't know what was plowed down by City Hall/NPS--it all seems to be a cipher.

If memory serves me correctly, a good chunk of Chinatown was razed in addition to the slums...perhaps the two were largely one and the same?
 
The Registry Building, immediately west of the City Hall, was demolished for building the parking ramp and the Ontario Superior Court.

The entire area is bit of a heritage disaster zone - with the University Ave. armouries and Synagogue being two other prominent casualities.

AoD
 
One of my [murmur] Spadina stories has a fellow talking about how his family's Chinese restaurant was located where the fountain/skating rink is now. So he sees it, and thinks of them.
 
^Then your informant is a liar. There was a lumberyard on that location.

The courthouse did not required the demoliton of the old registry office. It was on the northeast corner of Osgoode and Chesnut Streets. The University Avenue courthouse is on the sight of the old armoury.
 
andreap:

Thanks for the clarification - its' hard to tell from the old photos.

AoD
 
i saw a starbucks sign yesterday outside the old HSBC location near dundas and beverley. This neighborhood is sure in a flux now.
 
There's also a new boutique-ish hotel in Chinatown on the east side of Spadina (roughly around Grange St). I can't find any mention of it online, nor can I remember it's name, but it has brightly lit neon-palm trees outside its' doors.
 
I am not sure why relatively affluent, young asian people would not want to move into the city and live in this area.
Why would they? The last thing I would do if I moved to China, would be to seek out and live amougnst other white Europeans. Might as well stay where you came from if all you want to do is stick with your original people.

If I was Chinese and moving to Canada, the last place I would live would be amoungst the "China towns" in Vancouver, Markham, Toronto, Montreal, etc... No, assuming work and wealth could be found, you'd find me in the Maritimes, or some of the "white" or "non-Chinese" areas of Toronto.
 

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