Chinatown...Death of a Neighbourhood

[wyliepoon]

The BIA is active and non-koreans are taking notice (this was not at all the case in the 80's and 90's when local business were incredibly uninterested in non-Korean patrons).

And guess which ethnic group besides Koreans frequent Koreatown the most? The Chinese. All the Asian countries are in the middle of Korea-mania right now, and it's no different here with Chinese-Canadians who are falling in love with Korean soap operas, K-pop and especially Korean food.

I bet Koreatown will become Toronto's version of Calgary's "Red Mile" in a few months when the soccer World Cup hits town and red-clad Korean fans hit Bloor Street. I hope Korea gets far in the tournament, because their soccer parties are just as good as the Italians!

 

[adma]

There's no way of telling what a Chinatown T&T would do to the grocery stores there.

One wonders if that's the longer-or-shorter-term fate of places like the Chinatown Centre: big-boxing...

 

[miketoronto]

The death of Chinatown and other ethnic areas in the inner city of Toronto I think is a very big issue. While we can't stop change in the city, the loss of these areas from our inner city is a big problem.

With ethnic areas spread in exurban areas, it does not make it easy to go sample that culture, or even be able to stroll down a nice street.

The exurban districts just do not have the same style like the walkable inner city districts did.

But the decentralization you could say of ethnic areas is an issue.

Right now you can go downtown, and within min of downtown you can visit Chinatown, ride a streetcar out to Little India, Little Italy, greektown(which is dead now as an ethnic area), etc.

But as these places spread further out, it makes it harder for people to actually go visit these areas, and thats sad.

Theres nothing like a walkable ethnic strip, and a nice cluster of all these areas in a nice central location.

I think the problem with Toronto is we have such large immigrant populations, that its hard to keep one central location. Because of our large population, immigrants live everywhere and just built mini ethnic areas allover. Instead of say like Calgary where theres one Chinatown downtown, and thats it.

I do think TTC is to blame for part of the decline in the downtown Chinatown. If the TTC actually knew its ridership, they would be providing express bus service from northern Scarborough to Spadina Ave and downtown, every Saturday, etc. I bet if was easier to get down to Spadina, more people would do it.

But the loss of central ethnic areas is a big loss for Toronto and will make our inner city less exciting for sure.

The Chinese can built all the malls they want in Markham. There is only one place that really gives you the real chinatown feel, and thats Spadina, and no mall will ever capture that.

 

[cassiusa]

I do think TTC is to blame for part of the decline in the downtown Chinatown. If the TTC actually knew its ridership, they would be providing express bus service from northern Scarborough to Spadina Ave and downtown, every Saturday, etc. I bet if was easier to get down to Spadina, more people would do it.

I sometimes wonder if you think about what you're saying because if you do I find that hard to believe.

 

[Chuck100]

But as these places spread further out, it makes it harder for people to actually go visit these areas, and thats sad.

Well that's the thing, you have to ask who these areas are actually for. I think that Chinatown and other areas like it are there for people who rely on them, not for people who visit them for the afternoon. That's why they look and feel so real. When that dependent population moves on, it's impossible to maintain that authentic feel. A Chinatown sustained for the amusement of the North Americanized population will feel as fake as the Mandarin chain of restaurants.

That's why I think it's okay to let Chinatown evolve into something else. Who knows what group will move in next?

 

[pw20]

You know who hasn't weighed in on this issue?
Mike - can you ask your sister's friend in Philli? Maybe she has something salient to say.

 

[boiler2000]

Once a prosperous hive of activity, Toronto's downtown Chinatown, centred on Dundas St. W. and Spadina Ave, is now dismal and bleak. Most of the good restaurants have gone. Businesses are suffering. Only a few fruit stands remain. Litter swirls around the cold and lonely sidewalks.

This definitely doesn't ring true. Spadina is today one of the most bustling streets in Toronto. This weekend when I went grocery shopping on Spadina and Kensington, the nice weather literally choked the streets with people. It was amazing.

Of course, streets will change, and the ethnic make-ups of neighbourhoods will change. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what happens next. I have a feeling Spadina Avenue, which has been a hive of chaotic activity for at least the last 100 years, will continue to attract.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What I am curious about what effect, if any, Cityplace has on Chinatown. Does anyone have any idea as to what percentage of residents in the development are Chinese, the logic being that they'll be use Chinatown as the local market, etc.

AoD

 

[boiler2000]

Alvin: I think the influx of people into the King/Spadina and CityPlace areas will definitely have an impact, regardless of how many residents are Chinese.

Living at King/Spadina and being non-Chinese myself, I still find Chinatown a great place for buying groceries, especially fruits and vegetables (cheap!).

 

[building babel]

The early City Place buildings were heavily marketed to Chinese people. Are they still doing that? I don't think so. And were those early sales marketed primarily as investments or as residences for them? A Chinese friend bought one - as an investment property - and she sold it recently, making only a small profit.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

boiler:

I would think so, though I was also thinking about the community services aspects, since there is an existing Chinese community services infrastructure in the area.

babel:

That's the thing I am not too sure about - I know the units are probably heavily Chinese owned as investments, but I am not sure what the resident population is like from an ethnicity perspective.

From the pictures posted on the "Luna" thread and the ads in the Chinese papers, I would say they're still marketing them heavily to the Chinese population.

AoD

 

[maxy505]

What kind of "town" would you most like to see replace Chinatown at Spadina and Dundas? I'd like to have an "Africatown", representing countries from all over the continent. That would be sweet.

Second question, more realistic than the first -- what will the next "chinatown" be? Where are the inner-city immigrants coming from these days?

 

[shawnmicallef]

Interesting that Spadina was the centre of Toronto's black community at one point.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

maxy:

Second question, more realistic than the first -- what will the next "chinatown" be? Where are the inner-city immigrants coming from these days?

I am not sure if there is such thing as "inner city immigrants" nowadays anymore, given the increasing cost of living in the core. In fact, I think studies have shown that they're bypassing the core and settling down into the inner and outer burbs.

AoD

 

[Oliver Tweed]

I go there all the time and I do think it is lagging pretty badly. Having said that, I don't think it's beyond help at all. It needs some sprucing up and a bit more focus and organization. I'm also pretty confident that the neighbourhood will never die due to its location right smack downtown. It will just change with the times, as many people have pointed out already.

An excellent point was made by someone (sorry, I forget who) that those who have left the city for the suburbs will never be able to return. The 'burbs aren't the wave of the future, I honestly believe they've had their day. Though it seems like everyone in established Toronto neighbourhoods is fighting it, increased density will lure even more people into the core. The way the city springs to life as a result of more people on the streets can't be imagined until it happens. The quality of the shops and restaurants everywhere - including the Chinatown area - will improve. The future is up, it will just take time to take hold. Condo dwellers from all over who have access to transit lines will be looking for the next cool strip to go explore. Chinatown will still be a prime destination. Especially for cheap white undershirts. 4 for 10 bucks!!!!