Canada's next Prime Minister?

[urbanfan89]

Looks like Steve will have to can his crime legislation proposal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081005.welxnvandals1005/BNStory/politics/home

 

[Just_Chris]

Oh. By the way people were sticking up for Harper I thought I had maybe posted on the SUB-urban Toronto message board by accident....

So because I live in downtown Toronto I'm not allowed to vote Conservative? Hahaha. What a silly thing to imply.

Harper I think has done a pretty good job, and is probably getting my vote. Nobody is perfect, but our country has done pretty well during his term. The current government is certainly better than the last shameful Liberal government was. But some things never change....resorting to videos of a 5 year-old speech reeks of desperation. They're playing their last card, but they know they've already lost.

 

[Solaris]

Toronto Star - Tory support hits new low, poll finds

I personally hope there will be a majority government this hope, at least that way no more taxpayer dollars will be spend on elections until this term is completed

**************

Lead over Liberals at 7 points; NDP jumps to 21 per cent support

Oct 06, 2008 10:43 AM

THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA – Support for the Conservatives appears to be echoing the downward spiral of world financial markets.

The latest poll by The Canadian Press Harris-Decima put Tory support at a new low – 32 per cent.

However, that's still seven points ahead of the Liberals, who crept up to 25 per cent.

With just eight days until voting day on Oct. 14, the NDP was at 21 per cent and the Greens at 12.

The Bloc Quebecois had eight per cent nationally and was leading comfortably in Quebec.

Harris-Decima president Bruce Anderson says Harper needs to tweak his steady-as-she-goes message to show more empathy for Canadians anxious about the economy – and to show he has a plan to weather the economic storm.

The rolling poll sample represents 1,235 interviews conducted Thursday through Sunday. It is considered accurate to within plus or minus 2.8 percentage points, 19 times out of 20 – though the margin is much higher for regional samples.

 

[unimaginative2]

Harper I think has done a pretty good job, and is probably getting my vote. Nobody is perfect, but our country has done pretty well during his term. The current government is certainly better than the last shameful Liberal government was.

Hmm. So what made the last Liberal government so shameful? Running a $13 billions surplus? A national daycare strategy at long last? The Kelowna Accord?

Anyway, whatever you think of the Liberals, the fact is that Harper has managed to spend away a $13 billion surplus, so that we don't have any cushion left to deal with this economic slowdown. He even ran deficits for several months of the year. He's done exactly what George Bush did with Clinton's massive budget surplus.

 

[Solaris]

http://bushharper.com/

it is interesting how our election system allow attack ADs, shouldn't parties be promoting themselves rather than putting opponents down? is this what we want kids to be doing (putting others down to elevate one self?)

I think in Asia election ADs are only allowed to promote their own party, no bashing opponents are allowed ~ nonetheless this was interesting to watch

 

[unimaginative2]

Haha. Are those the first attack ads you've seen this campaign? Maybe you might have noticed the "Not a Leader" ads making fun of Stephane Dion that started two years ago when he was elected leader. Or maybe the ads that put him on a cartoon slot machine calling him "Not Worth the Risk." Or maybe the non-stop radio ads about how Dion would screw everyone. It's amazing that you managed to miss them. They have been pretty much non-stop for two years.

 

[Solaris]

I know ... I've seen the attack ADs from both sides ... I just posted this one since I found a website on it ~

But my point is ... rules should be implemented against attack ADs, like in Asia ... I think the point is to sell your party, not putting down your opponent ... I direct this to all parties in the Federal Election (definitely not only Liberals)

 

[unimaginative2]

I agree, to a certain extent, but I don't think a blanket law is the right way to go. I think that all ads should be factually based, but there really isn't anything wrong with an ad highlighting a speech Harper made denouncing Medicare or supporting the Iraq War, just as there isn't anything wrong with highlighting the Sponsorship Scandal.

 

[Moonmoth]

So because I live in downtown Toronto I'm not allowed to vote Conservative? Hahaha. What a silly thing to imply.

Harper I think has done a pretty good job, and is probably getting my vote. Nobody is perfect, but our country has done pretty well during his term. The current government is certainly better than the last shameful Liberal government was. But some things never change....resorting to videos of a 5 year-old speech reeks of desperation. They're playing their last card, but they know they've already lost.

No, I certainly am not implying that you are not allowed to vote conservative just 'cause you live in Toronto, only that the conservatives may not even get one single seat in Toronto this election and so, though people do vote conservative in the city, the likelyhood of them winning any ridings in Toronto-proper is very small.

The mentality of "the country's doing well so I am voting for Harper" has got to go. Do people have no aspirations for this country, no vision of the future?? Harper's well documented far-right ideology & policies just don't cut it! Is Harper going to be capable of shifting industry towards renewable energy production? No. Is he going to implement widespread wind-farms, geothermal heating systems and electric cars? No. Is he going to institute national childcare or pharmacare. Certainly not. What he will do is sell Canada off piece by piece, systematically dismantling every social institution that differentiates us from the US and sell off Canadian natural resources (claiming exports are very important to the economy) and he'll do it by holding that carrot in front of people's eyes saying: "I'll cut your taxes so vote for me".

I don't have a problem with taxes, I like to drive on roads, have police service, I believe in paying into a large pool so we all benefit.

Harper is appealing to the lowest common denominator in all of us. And I, for one, won't stand for it.

 

[kEiThZ]

No, I certainly am not implying that you are not allowed to vote conservative just 'cause you live in Toronto, only that the conservatives may not even get one single seat in Toronto this election and so, though people do vote conservative in the city, the likelyhood of them winning any ridings in Toronto-proper is very small.

That does not mean that nobody should vote for them if they don't have a chance of winning. Should only Liberals voters vote in Liberal safe ridings and Conservative voters in Conservatives safe ridings and NDP voters in NDP safe ridings....etc? Who cares if they don't get a single seat in Toronto?

What's more, if they ever did win a seat in the 416, that MP would certainly be guaranteed a cabinet seat (and probably something important), and would probably be successful in drawing in funds for subways, etc. As it stands, because Toronto has a bunch of safe Liberal ridings, the Liberals ignore us when they are in power (not a single Ontario Liberal MP backed this province's Liberal Premier's call for more money for Ontario) and the Conservative do the same because it's an electoral wasteland for them. I certainly don't fault either party for thinking that way. You have to fight for votes in a democracy, so parties will throw money around where it matters. And sadly Toronto does not matter because it's not in play.

Harper going to be capable of shifting industry towards renewable energy production? No. Is he going to implement widespread wind-farms, geothermal heating systems and electric cars? No. Is he going to institute national childcare or pharmacare. Certainly not.

Does it ever occur to you that priorities are hardly the same for everybody? If those priorities mean that we will be raising taxes during a downturn, resulting in reduced consumer spending and a higher burden on companies than I would certainly vote against them. It's not that I don't support that vision. It's just that I don't agree that the time is right for extravagant new social spending. As to the priorities you point out....the Liberal and Conservative infrastructure commitments for the next 4 years are exactly the same. Lastly, many of those responsibilities: power generation, pharmacare, childcare, etc are provincial responsibilities. They might use some federal leadership but there's nothing stopping provinces from accomplishing any of that on their own. If you have ever left Toronto, you'll know that many provinces are already moving ahead on many of those fronts on their own.

What he will do is sell Canada off piece by piece, systematically dismantling every social institution that differentiates us from the US and sell off Canadian natural resources (claiming exports are very important to the economy) and he'll do it by holding that carrot in front of people's eyes saying: "I'll cut your taxes so vote for me".

A lot of unsubstantiated accusations for which you have not provided evidence. What social instituation has he sold off? And as for resources, in case you missed it in high school, that's the purview of the provinces not the federal government. I am all for re-opening the constitution on this one but in case you haven't noticed its the provinces whoring out Canada's resources not the feds.

I don't have a problem with taxes, I like to drive on roads, have police service...

I hardly doubt most people would disagree with paying taxes for any of those services. And if you notice most of those services, like many others you consume on a daily basis are paid for through municipal taxes not federal or provincial. I am always amazed at how people fail to understand the importance of municipal government and blame every daily issue on the highest level of government hundreds or thousands of miles away.

I believe in paying into a large pool so we all benefit.

Sure you do, but I am willing to bet that you are not in a tax bracket where that tax hit is significant at all. It's easy to advocate for new social spending when you are only paying 15% in taxes. Let's see if you feel the same way when you start making 70k+ and you're working 60-70 hr weeks. Let's see how you feel if your spouse wants to stay home to take care of the kids and he/she gets nothing because all that money went into a national daycare program, which ignores the fact that the best care that can be given is the one by parents.

 

[Mot]

That's hardly a right wing critique. Look at the hit job the NDP are doing on the Liberal Green Shift. All while trying to sell a cap-and-trade system as costing only the big, bad 'oil companies' not the average schmo. If you watched the debate you'd see how caustic Jack is and how deceiving his policies are. The 'Real economy'? Gimme a break.

I watched the debate yesterday. Jack Layton did a great job, as did everyone but Harper. When will the Cons actually put their plan out there ...October 15th? You do a brilliant job of defending the Tory economic platform that does not exist.

 

[Dichotomy]

I've always voted Liberal, but I will not do so in this election. The Liberals were in power for far too long, and Keithz is right about the feds ignoring Toronto and taking our votes for granted.
As to the remark about Harper selling off Canada piece by piece: wasn't it his government that stopped the company that created the Canadarm (with our $, btw) from being sold to a U.S. competitor?

I say, let's give Harper a majority and see what happens. I have a lot of faith in the Civil Service and their ability to act as a buffer.

Of course, in my riding, my vote is just a waste. Sigh. Such is the state of Canadian politics.

 

[kEiThZ]

I've always voted Liberal, but I will not do so in this election. The Liberals were in power for far too long, and Keithz is right about the feds ignoring Toronto and taking our votes for granted.
....
I have a lot of faith in the Civil Service and their ability to act as a buffer.

In a nutshell, that's how I feel about it too. This will probably be the first time I am voting Conservative federally (I have been mad at the Libs before but still voted for their platform....just can't stomach that this time) and only the second time I have voted for them ever at any level of government (I vote for John Tory last time). I don't think Harper deserves a majority but I am not buying that the Cons are going to decimate Canada either. Nor do I want a change of government in these turbulent times. Next election who knows....with brighter economic prospects I'd probably support a party that's willing to boost infrastructure and social spending. For now, it's just that I find the risk of new spending or a drastic change in tax policy too much.... Lastly, since the Libs ignore Toronto anyway, I hardly foresee any change in federal attitudes toward the city. It's not like there was significant funding for infrastructure under Chretien/Martin. And I am doubtful that Toronto would get much of the funding under Dion....it'll all go to Quebec and the Atlantic.

 

[Moonmoth]

That does not mean that nobody should vote for them if they don't have a chance of winning. Should only Liberals voters vote in Liberal safe ridings and Conservative voters in Conservatives safe ridings and NDP voters in NDP safe ridings....etc? Who cares if they don't get a single seat in Toronto?

I'm simply not saying this. But I am totally fine with the Tories staying out of Toronto. Go spend your time with more secure votership.

Does it ever occur to you that priorities are hardly the same for everybody? If those priorities mean that we will be raising taxes during a downturn, resulting in reduced consumer spending and a higher burden on companies than I would certainly vote against them. It's not that I don't support that vision. It's just that I don't agree that the time is right for extravagant new social spending.

That is precisely why global warming, climate change and the general dark age ahead is quite inevitable. Humans have short life spans (relatively) so it is very difficult to do long term planning of any kind and because we have what amounts to virtually NO leadership in government...we find ourselves in the situation of reacting dramatically only when catastrophe hits, which is what I expect we will be doing when oil becomes unaffordable to drive cars, heat homes etc.

I am aware I was mixing up provincial, municipal responsibilites. It's a message board not a position paper.

Sure you do, but I am willing to bet that you are not in a tax bracket where that tax hit is significant at all. It's easy to advocate for new social spending when you are only paying 15% in taxes. Let's see if you feel the same way when you start making 70k+ and you're working 60-70 hr weeks. Let's see how you feel if your spouse wants to stay home to take care of the kids and he/she gets nothing because all that money went into a national daycare program, which ignores the fact that the best care that can be given is the one by parents.

Clearly, you have no way of knowing what my tax bracket is!

 

[Moonmoth]

In a nutshell, that's how I feel about it too. This will probably be the first time I am voting Conservative federally (I have been mad at the Libs before but still voted for their platform....just can't stomach that this time) and only the second time I have voted for them ever at any level of government (I vote for John Tory last time). I don't think Harper deserves a majority but I am not buying that the Cons are going to decimate Canada either. Nor do I want a change of government in these turbulent times. Next election who knows....with brighter economic prospects I'd probably support a party that's willing to boost infrastructure and social spending. For now, it's just that I find the risk of new spending or a drastic change in tax policy too much.... Lastly, since the Libs ignore Toronto anyway, I hardly foresee any change in federal attitudes toward the city. It's not like there was significant funding for infrastructure under Chretien/Martin. And I am doubtful that Toronto would get much of the funding under Dion....it'll all go to Quebec and the Atlantic.

It displays a defeatist attitude to vote conservative, in your case. I can honestly say I have never and I will never vote conservative.
I am having deju vu to the Mike Harris days in Ontario.