Moonmoth
Active Member
Oh. By the way people were sticking up for Harper I thought I had maybe posted on the SUB-urban Toronto message board by accident....
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Canada's next Prime Minister?
- Thread starter Solaris
- Start date
Oh. By the way people were sticking up for Harper I thought I had maybe posted on the SUB-urban Toronto message board by accident....
kEiThZ
Superstar
Eewww. Creepy. Gotta wonder about the judgment in that riding association...lol....
In case you haven't noticed there are buildings north of Front.... and there is no rule that says all urban voters must vote Liberal and all rural voters must vote Conservative..... That's a rather American way of thinking.
afransen
Senior Member
OAS, CPP, Universal Child Benefit, are all directly administered by the feds (except Quebec has opted out of some). And well, CPP is technically arms-length from the federal government...
Easy. Canning the Kelowna Accord.
The Netherlands is more progressive on a number of fronts, including prostitution, marijuana and euthanasia. The Dutch really have quite a remarkable record of tolerance, though that is certainly being challenged by the rise of radical Islam.
Keith: I think the only reason Dion is losing this election is the communication barrier. I'm not convinced the policies are a problem (the emphasis was wrong), but not defending the policies effectively are what cost them. They are running against Stephen 'Just-Say-No-to-Banana-Flavoured-Tobacco' Harper. They could have made mincemeat of them. Perhaps that means Dion should be replaced, but I still think he has potential.
When Harper wins another minority, he'll have numbered days. The grassroots of the CPC will start to insist on setting policy, and if he denies them as he has done so far it could get ugly. Unless he really starts to shine, the next election could be the end for him. If he doesn't win a majority in the next election, he will start to face some challenges from his party.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Touche. But the sentiment of my comment was right. Have any of the programs you name been altered in any way whatsoever by the Conservatives?
I would disagree that the Kelowna accord would have made one lick of difference in pulling millions of aboriginals out of abject poverty. Paying billions in bribe money to band councils across the country just so they won't block the 401 is not a good idea. How much have we spent on aboriginals so far? And how much do we spend every year? Are we to believe that a few billion more would suddenly accomplish what the tens of billions that we have spent over the last few decades have not? And what was highly suspicious is that Martin signed a 5 billion dollar deal 72 hours from leaving office. I find that spurious. Imagine if Harper did that. What would people be saying about him?
I certainly support the spirit of the Kelowna accord. But let's not pretend it would end poverty. The aboriginal people need reform of their governance and some day we will have to decide whether it's sustainable to stick people on reserves far away from jobs and other forms of social sustenance. I am a big believer in urban reserves. They would at least get rid of the first nations ghettos you see in many western cities, particularly Winnipeg. Throwing money at the problem, though, without attacking any of the underlying issues, is hardly the solution.
Aside from that, other than the spending commitments, there were several other commitments including speeding up the settling of land claims. Those have been worked on by the Conservatives without much support from native leaders who want their hush money. How come Harper does not get credit for those efforts?
I disagree. The average canuck will see the Green Shift as an environmental platform not an economic platform in a time period when they want an economic platform. It's just a tough sell that's all. Had this election been held before the summer, Dion would have had a much easier time selling a carbon tax. That being said, you have won me over on the issue of a carbon tax....
He'll makes a great minister and would probably have been a decent prime minister...though I suspect he would have been weak on foreign policy, defence, etc. But he's not the guy to help you win an election....for that you need a scrapper like Chretien.
Could go either way on this. I am sure he'll be telling the partisans, 'Look what the arts cuts did to us in Quebec.' They may agree with him, they may not....and it'll be at their peril if they do not; especially in a minority.
I am betting this next term will be it for him. He's done all he's set out to do. He's united the right, gotten them elected, and set them on a course towards the centre, while trying to draw canada rightward. I think a more centrist leader would serve them well here on in. My choice would be Peter MacKay. I could see a Conservative majority if MacKay was running.....
afransen
Senior Member
Harper's going nowhere until after the next election, unless of course he manages a surprise implosion of support in the next 10 days. He has an iron grip on the CPC apparatus, and has been very effective at eliminating challenges to his leadership. I just can't see him resigning during a minority parliament without a full-on revolt from the party. This likely won't come unless there is another two years without a policy convention.
Mot
Active Member
Is this supposed to be unexpected and a surprise revelation from you? You seem to be a fan of Harper.
Mot
Active Member
You do a great Rush Limbaugh inpersonation.
kEiThZ
Superstar
That's hardly a right wing critique. Look at the hit job the NDP are doing on the Liberal Green Shift. All while trying to sell a cap-and-trade system as costing only the big, bad 'oil companies' not the average schmo. If you watched the debate you'd see how caustic Jack is and how deceiving his policies are. The 'Real economy'? Gimme a break.
afransen
Senior Member
New Nanos numbers, today:
Conservatives: 34 (-1)
Liberals: 30 (+2)
New Democrats: 19 (-)
Greens: 7 (-1)
Bloc Quebecois: 10 (-)
Undecided: 14 (-2)
details
Interestingly, Dion now leads as 'Best PM' in Quebec and Atlantic. Liberals have a 12 point advantage over CPC in Quebec.
I guess that means that this race ain't quite over yet.
Conservatives: 34 (-1)
Liberals: 30 (+2)
New Democrats: 19 (-)
Greens: 7 (-1)
Bloc Quebecois: 10 (-)
Undecided: 14 (-2)
details
Interestingly, Dion now leads as 'Best PM' in Quebec and Atlantic. Liberals have a 12 point advantage over CPC in Quebec.
I guess that means that this race ain't quite over yet.
Moonmoth
Active Member
This is interesting! According to this nanopoll, the Liberals could be only one percentage off the conservatives! Cons: could be at %33 and liberals could be at %32! Veryy interesting! Looks like a closer race than Herpeser
would like! I'd be happy with a minority liberal government!
Anything But Conservative
http://www.voteforenvironment.ca/
kEiThZ
Superstar
A bounce was to be expected from the debate. I wonder if the bounce will hold. If there's any more bad economic news next week, though, I think it'll favour the Conservatives. And it's also possible that the Conservatives might get a bounce when their platform is released on Tuesday.
Either way, I'd be just as happy with a Lib or Con minority. I just don't think either deserves a majority, right now. It's going to be an interesting week for sure.
adma
Superstar
I'd even more likely look at a dark horse like Mike Chong for that kind of "David Cameron" breakthrough.
afransen
Senior Member
Bad economic news is arguably what cost the Conservatives. The thing that most caught the Conservatives off-guard this week was Dion's '5 point plan' (*groan*) for the economy, which is an interesting juxtaposition to Harper's position of 'do nothing' (or more charitably, 'we've done what we can'). Now, it would be unseemly for the Conservatives to announce a similar policy.
Also, that Harper announced his platform would be released on Tuesday just after the debates on Friday suggests to me that they were hoping to not release a platform at all, and are either developing or revising their platform document. If they had it ready, they likely would have released it on Friday. Either that, or they just wanted to stop the jokes about how they are platformless.
Unless there are surprises in their platform, I doubt it will help them much. Most of their 'plankettes' are highly tailored, fairly small proposals. The NDP has created a pretty hard-hitting ad, criticizing Harper for dangling tiny tax benefits in front of Canadians while giving huge tax breaks to corporations. While I am by no means opposed to these business tax breaks, I am opposed to the stupid tax credits that do nothing beyond adding complexity. I do think that the message will hit home for many voters.
If the Conservatives move even further left than Harper has governed, they'd be flirting with another revolt of a significant part of their base.
Also, that Harper announced his platform would be released on Tuesday just after the debates on Friday suggests to me that they were hoping to not release a platform at all, and are either developing or revising their platform document. If they had it ready, they likely would have released it on Friday. Either that, or they just wanted to stop the jokes about how they are platformless.
Unless there are surprises in their platform, I doubt it will help them much. Most of their 'plankettes' are highly tailored, fairly small proposals. The NDP has created a pretty hard-hitting ad, criticizing Harper for dangling tiny tax benefits in front of Canadians while giving huge tax breaks to corporations. While I am by no means opposed to these business tax breaks, I am opposed to the stupid tax credits that do nothing beyond adding complexity. I do think that the message will hit home for many voters.
If the Conservatives move even further left than Harper has governed, they'd be flirting with another revolt of a significant part of their base.
Brandon716
Senior Member
I think the more people focus on the issues and get to know Dion, the more comfortable they are with the new face of the Liberal party. Right now its just be one huge cluster gang bang against the Liberals for nearly 5 years in the national Canadian media.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Absolutely. I can't think of a better or more electable Tory than him. Though he might struggle in Quebec over his opposition to the nation motion, his intelligence and moderation would win far more people over.