2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

[BurlOak]

Is the Federal Government obligated to paying half the cost of all Provincial transit/infrastructure projects ?

This is the full paragraph

All projects funded through the BCF–CC are cost-shared, with the maximum federal contribution to any single project being 50 percent. Municipal projects are cost-shared on a one-third basis—the maximum federal share is limited to one-third, with a matching contribution from both the province and municipality. For projects where the asset is owned by a private sector entity, the maximum federal contribution is 25 percent. Within the program's stacking provisions, municipalities may use funding received through the Gas Tax Fund to increase the federal share to 50 percent of total eligible project costs.

It looks like, I haven't seen anything saying otherwise. The only other restrictions are

• Municipal projects = 1/3 but municipalities may use funding received through the Gas Tax Fund to increase the federal share to 50 percent of total eligible project costs.
  
• Private projects =25% (explaining why the Montreal REM only got $1.3B on a $6B project) The asset belongs to CDQ

No restrictions for the provinces

There is something very entitled about a Province saying the Federal contribution must go from 33% to 50%,

One can assume that Ottawa would not fund fewer absolute dollars to an incoming PC regime than it has promised to its Liberal predecessor, for the same projects that had been approved previously. But a Province saying, hey we are paying 50%, so you Ottawa have to pay that also, doesn't sound compelling to me.

I can agree that the PC sleight of hand might actually download cost to cities. But thinking that they will pry more money out of Ottawa by changing their contribution and then re-intepreting the fine print of the infrastructure fund rules is not a wise bet.

- Paul

So what is going on here.
The perception was (during the 2015 campaign) that the federal government will pay a 50% of all transit costs.
The quote above says that BCF-CC will be funded up to 50% - but that fund is not bottomless. Likely as soon as a non-Liberal government is in power provincially, the willingness to pay will disappear from the federal government.

 

[salsa]

Then we just hike up the property taxes, no?

"In a timely manner".

I know the City will have no choice, I’m just saying it’s not feasible for the city do it. Toronto is at its debt ceiling, and no revenue tool the City possesses can generate $1.75 Billion in a timely manner. If this is indeed the plan, then we might as well consider the DRL canceled.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Giving it some more thought, I think the idea of QP taking over the municipal share of SSE (with the municipality then moving funds for Eglinton East) is a really good idea, and something that the Ontario Liberals should be adding to their platform as well.

I think it is worth a shot to get the Feds to match provincial contribution.

 

[Rainforest]

"In a timely manner".

Construction of DRL will take many years. Can the city make yearly installments based on the portion of property tax dedicated to DRL? (As opposed to taking on more debt and paying a lump sum, then paying down the debt for multiple years.)

 

[Cobra]

If the city is serious about all its transit plans, paying for it is inevitable. Since Queen's Park won't allow us to till the Gardiner and the DVP, seems like sales tax might be one of the only ways to raise sufficient amount of money to pay back the loans. Arguably, that loan would be from the future Infrastructure bank right?

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

If the city is serious about all its transit plans, paying for it is inevitable. Since Queen's Park won't allow us to till the Gardiner and the DVP, seems like sales tax might be one of the only ways to raise sufficient amount of money to pay back the loans. Arguably, that loan would be from the future Infrastructure bank right?

Me thinks election time is a great time to bump up the ole' New Transit Funding Sources thread.

 

[Allandale25]

So if Brown actually went through with his subways pledge (DRL, SSE, YSE, Sheppard), which other transit project do folks think would most likely be cut or reduced (or feel free to disagree with the premise)? GO RER from 15-minute to more infrequent service?

 

[TransitBart]

So if Brown actually went through with his subways pledge (DRL, SSE, YSE, Sheppard), which other transit project do folks think would most likely be cut or reduced (or feel free to disagree with the premise)? GO RER from 15-minute to more infrequent service?

Why is everyone always so eager to frame th debate as EITHER / OR? Don’t we need it all? Don’t the two projects that you mention serve different constituencies! How will serving one constitu not better and denying another be good politics?

 

[Leo_Chan]

Why is everyone always so eager to frame th debate as EITHER / OR? Don’t we need it all? Don’t the two projects that you mention serve different constituencies! How will serving one constitu not better and denying another be good politics?

Because politics.

 

[Allandale25]

Why is everyone always so eager to frame th debate as EITHER / OR? Don’t we need it all? Don’t the two projects that you mention serve different constituencies! How will serving one constitu not better and denying another be good politics?

I suppose my question framed it as either/or because of the financial realities.

 

[TransitBart]

I suppose my question framed it as either/or because of the financial realities.

The financial “realities” are imposed and determined by us.

The quality-of-life shot to hell by hellacious commutes is also a reality for many. I think we should deal NOW with the lengthening commute reported by StatsCan.

I prefer to see life as something that we have the ability to create by vision, determination and creative thought amongst other means.

I like the PC platform - in principle - because it is a bit grand. The world is full of petty thinkers. And petty ambitions. I like visions for Toronto and the GTA like Richard Florida’s.

And I’d prefer not to retire before I can leave the car at home to get around the city sans weather or traffic delay. And while Alphabet/Google is a bit of a short-term score for the city, let’s not get too excited because no one is going to bring a business here to face hell on the roads.

 

[rbt]

So if Brown actually went through with his subways pledge (DRL, SSE, YSE, Sheppard), which other transit project do folks think would most likely be cut or reduced (or feel free to disagree with the premise)? GO RER from 15-minute to more infrequent service?

Hourly (or even 90/120 minute) frequencies seems likely for most lines; probably even Lake Shore (yes, "right-sized" service for ridership based on over-sized inefficient-at-small-load trains).

I also expect DRL, SSE, YSE, Sheppard to be mostly 2nd term items. Tenders issued in early 2022 (before the election) but financial close/construction start will be up to the new government in 2023 (which he'll hope is a Brown majority).

Add a decade construction and in 2033 (16 years from now) there might be something.


I'm going to be looking for strong timeline commitments during the debates both to current plans awaiting tendering in addition to new promises.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The financial “realities” are imposed and determined by us.

The quality-of-life shot to hell by hellacious commutes is also a reality for many. I think we should deal NOW with the lengthening commute reported by StatsCan.

I prefer to see life as something that we have the ability to create by vision, determination and creative thought amongst other means.

I like the PC platform - in principle - because it is a bit grand. The world is full of petty thinkers. And petty ambitions. I like visions for Toronto and the GTA like Richard Florida’s.

And I’d prefer not to retire before I can leave the car at home to get around the city sans weather or traffic delay. And while Alphabet/Google is a bit of a short-term score for the city, let’s not get too excited because no one is going to bring a business here to face hell on the roads.

Nothing in his proposal is particularly creative or grand. It's rehashing what we are already expecting in the pipeline. If you want truly creative or grand, how about establishing a regional level of government encompassing the entire Golden Horseshoe, with the ability to levy taxes for transit building. That's grand. Moving responsibilities around so that one can use accounting trick is the opposite of grand.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So if Brown actually went through with his subways pledge (DRL, SSE, YSE, Sheppard), which other transit project do folks think would most likely be cut or reduced (or feel free to disagree with the premise)? GO RER from 15-minute to more infrequent service?

RER is the first to be cut, judging by their lack of commitment to the project. That’s $15 Billion that won’t need to be spent.

Sure it would hurt Ontario economically for decades to come, but we don’t have patience for such nuance in Ontario.

 

[raptor]

RER is the first to be cut, judging by their lack of commitment to the project. That’s $15 Billion that won’t need to be spent.

Sure it would hurt Ontario economically for decades to come, but we don’t have patience for such nuance in Ontario.

According to this, RER will NOT be cut:

The party would also complete the Liberals’ most expensive transit project — a $13.5-billion expansion of GO Transit service known as regional express rail (RER), under which GO trains would be electrified and run more frequently.