2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[BurlOak]

I stand by the fact that people care about travel times and speed. Not the mode which provides it. LRT isn't favourable, not because it's LRT and Ford's ridiculous rhetoric. People in these parts don't support it because they think they are getting second rate solutions which won't actually reduce commute times. And that's the problem. Heck, LRT will be eminently supportable once the GO REX network is fully built and integrated with the TTC. With their commute needs met, there won't be any opposition to improving local travel.

GO REX first, then LRT. I learned about order of operations back in grade school (Mr. BOMDAS)

GO REX has had Zero discussion in the public. All people see is LRT taking them to an already crowded subway, for essentially the same trip they have now - maybe shaving off a few minutes on an hour+ trip.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

BurlOak:

And yet shaving a few minutes off an hour long trip is exactly what a good chunk of Scarberians wanted re: SRT subway conversion (or the Sheppard extension). Note - it's Rob Ford who is leading the old borough, not John Tory.

AoD

 

[MrsNesbitt]

BurlOak:

And yet shaving a few minutes off an hour long trip is exactly what a good chunk of Scarberians wanted re: SRT subway conversion (or the Sheppard extension). Note - it's Rob Ford who is leading the old borough, not John Tory.

AoD

I believe that's only because Tory's SmartTrack plan is presented as a very new and novel idea, branded in a kooky way and weird-looking on a map, and costing an obscenely large sum of money. That's a lot for Scarborough residents to take.

It speaks volumes to the mentality of many Metro residents that subways are king even though they're slow and expensive - people have never known anything different or better. But once GO RER is put in place, regardless of the transit plans of any of the mayoral candidates, and Scarborough begins to reap the benefits of that system, then I think we'll see the sort of rabid Fordite "subways subways subways" talk subside. Until then, however, Ford will be popular in the Borough for his simple populist talk. Good thing one can't win an election in this City on Scarborough alone.

 

[kEiThZ]

It speaks volumes to the mentality of many Metro residents that subways are king even though they're slow and expensive - people have never known anything different or better. But once GO RER is put in place, regardless of the transit plans of any of the mayoral candidates, and Scarborough begins to reap the benefits of that system, then I think we'll see the sort of rabid Fordite "subways subways subways" talk subside. Until then, however, Ford will be popular in the Borough for his simple populist talk. Good thing one can't win an election in this City on Scarborough alone.

Exactly this. Exactly flippin' this. People want faster ways to get around. And today the fastest way they know is a subway. You tell them that you are cancelling a planned/promised subway and give them an LRT, they are going to think you are ripping them off.

On the other hand, if real suburban rail comes to fruition, I genuinely feel that nobody will be pining for subways ever again.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Exactly this. Exactly flippin' this. People want faster ways to get around. And today the fastest way they know is a subway. You tell them that you are cancelling a planned/promised subway and give them an LRT, they are going to think you are ripping them off.

On the other hand, if real suburban rail comes to fruition, I genuinely feel that nobody will be pining for subways ever again.

Except that there is a bit of a cognitive dissonance - considering the results of the provincial election where both RER AND subways are at play. GO makes more sense for long distance travel - but are the residents buying it over the subway extension prior to implementation? I suspect not.

At the end of the day money is limited, and I think one better sort that decision out before anything hits the shovel. Come to think of it, the money saved can actually be used to build LRTs connecting the GO hubs.

AoD

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Except that there is a bit of a cognitive dissonance - considering the results of the provincial election where both RER AND subways are at play. GO makes more sense for long distance travel - but are the residents buying it over the subway extension prior to implementation? I suspect not.

At the end of the day money is limited, and I think one better sort that decision out before anything hits the shovel. Come to think of it, the money saved can actually be used to build LRTs connecting the GO hubs.

AoD

That's the rub, really, with all of this subway nonsense. If you implement GO RER (I must note that I still prefer the term REX) then direct regional travel by transit becomes substantially faster and more comfortable, and the cash savings can be applied to expand a wider LRT network. Everyone wins, from regional travellers right on down to local jaunts which get a speed boost from LRT.

Yet as long as the public sees transit investment as a stark choice between subway OR light rail, transit will always be ineffective - a slow bus to a slow subway. A paradigm shift within the borders of the City of Toronto is necessary, and that will only come once people begin to experience GO RER.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

No, they supported whatever council supported.

Thank You.

 

[gweed123]

That's the rub, really, with all of this subway nonsense. If you implement GO RER (I must note that I still prefer the term REX) then direct regional travel by transit becomes substantially faster and more comfortable, and the cash savings can be applied to expand a wider LRT network. Everyone wins, from regional travellers right on down to local jaunts which get a speed boost from LRT.

Yet as long as the public sees transit investment as a stark choice between subway OR light rail, transit will always be ineffective - a slow bus to a slow subway. A paradigm shift within the borders of the City of Toronto is necessary, and that will only come once people begin to experience GO RER.

Agreed 100%. Suburban subway extensions by and large don't make sense in this day and age, especially given how quickly costs are rising. Toronto's subway network extends just about as far out as it should for now, and for the foreseeable future (aside from a new downtown subway and a few minor extensions to a logical, integrated terminus). What suburban Toronto and the 905 needs is frequent, reliable, and fast GO REX in order to get across the region quickly, and a network of LRTs and BRTs to get people to and from the nearest GO REX station quickly.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What suburban Toronto and the 905 needs is frequent, reliable, and fast GO REX in order to get across the region quickly, and a network of LRTs and BRTs to get people to and from the nearest GO REX station quickly.

Agree in general, though it's not yet clear how effective a non-core/periphery GO REX system will work, given the diffuse nature of ridership (esp. employment) outside the core.

AoD

 

[Electrify]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Chow has come out in favour of the TTC's new service plan, while Tory is against it. It will be interesting to see how this affects Chow's standings. Basically now Tory's transit plan is not much better than Ford's: cancel LRTs in favour of Scarborough subway. SmartTrack doesn't count since it is essentially GO rebranded.

 

[salsa]

Good grief. Why would Tory be against it?

 

[ehlow]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Chow has come out in favour of the TTC's new service plan, while Tory is against it. It will be interesting to see how this affects Chow's standings. Basically now Tory's transit plan is not much better than Ford's: cancel LRTs in favour of Scarborough subway. SmartTrack doesn't count since it is essentially GO rebranded.

This and the stance against Eglinton Connects pretty much seals the deal for me on not voting for Tory, unless it's a tie between him and Ford.

 

[GenerationW]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Chow has come out in favour of the TTC's new service plan, while Tory is against it. It will be interesting to see how this affects Chow's standings. Basically now Tory's transit plan is not much better than Ford's: cancel LRTs in favour of Scarborough subway. SmartTrack doesn't count since it is essentially GO rebranded.

He didn't say he's against it per se. He's playing the fiscal responsibility card by saying he's against any report that proposes new spending without spelling out how it'll be paid for.

 

[rbt]

He didn't say he's against it per se. He's playing the fiscal responsibility card by saying he's against any report that proposes new spending without spelling out how it'll be paid for.

Which isn't unreasonable; except TTC management doesn't decide how funds are collected and has to release the report to the commission to determine if they're willing or able to perform that step.

Tory will figure out how municipalities in Ontario work, about 18 months to 2 years into his 4 year term. Holding still is better than falling backward but not by much.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

He didn't say he's against it per se. He's playing the fiscal responsibility card by saying he's against any report that proposes new spending without spelling out how it'll be paid for.

Yes, isn't that the "fiscal responsibility" card that has gotten us into the transit mess we're in right now? Ad hoc budgeting, utter loack of long-range planning, etc.

AoD