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Why the Hate for Mississauga?

Like Fairview Mall?

Worse than Fairview. It lets you off in a level of the parking garage that feels and looks very much like the bus depot on Dundas. Then you proceed into the parlour, err, the dropped ceiling washroom, and then wiggle your way into the mall like some kind of worm. The only people taking the Hiawatha line to the MoA were tourists, and each scratched their head at the awful connection. The Bronx mall bus causeway is for locals, who presumably can put up with awkwarder or uglier connections.

At least at Fairview you're let off into a parking garage with some light and air and then straight into Sears (unless one considers entering Sears worse). An escalator would help.

I guess the mall with the best/easiest connection to transit is either Eaton Centre or STC...perhaps STC wins because there's no tunnels to get to opposite-bound trains, though you do have to go outside very briefly and face a barrage of smokers and thugs. Square One's isn't horrible but it could be a lot better and probably will be in the future.
 
Pro- or anti-suburbs has nothing to do with it: what you are is a moron for failing to appreciate the many degrees of pedestrian friendliness between a 400-series highway and Queen Street.

edit - other people, including myself, take issue, in a thread questioning stereotypes, with places being deemed only either pedestrian friendly or unfriendly instead of existing on a continuum derived from a host of complex measurements. There's more to it than pre-war = friendly, post-war = unfriendly. There's more to it than "well, it looks unfriendly" or "it's unfriendly because I say so." Who gets to decide what's measured or the weight of various measurements? Yonge & Wellesley is undeniably pedestrian friendly, but the sidewalks are so narrow that people are constantly forced to step into traffic or walk on the road at the intersection. Is Bay & Wellesley more friendly because the sidewalks are metres wider and the intersection, frankly, less dangerous?

Downtown Toronto busy intersections are typically very non-pedestrian friendly. Congested narrow sidewalks and intersections are typical of downtown. Yonge/Wellesley is not pedestrian friendly. The fact you say people basically spill onto the street proves it. Although Yonge/Charles St is arguably worse. People not only spill onto it, but the intersection always gives drivers and predestrians confusion as the intersection has a weird angle to it. Another non-friendly street for pedestrians.

Just because there's lots of people, just means there's lots of people living there, working there or shopping. Also, there's tons of students nearby.

Typical Yonge intersections are actually not pedestrian friendly.

- Most do not have advance crosswalk signals for walkers
- No bike lanes. Actually, aside from bike couriers you almost never see people riding bikes or rollerblading anywhere downtown unless they force themselves to go to Lakeshore or they want to do it at 11 pm at night. Too congested and unsafe to do it on the sidewalk or roads during normal hours.
- Narrow sidewalks
- No curbside grass or anything like that for buffer space
- Many downtown intersections do not even have corners paved smooth to allow people pushing strollers or wheelchair bound people to get up it
- Many busy streets have no bus service due to congestion unless its before or after rush hour. Since downtowners don't like driving, you are forced to walk, take streetcar or subway assuming your street has access to it and is close enough to where you want to go
- Way too many small short blocks, therefore there's tons of intersections and car traffic where pedestrians have to watch where they're walking or riding
- The fact there are so many taxis everywhere means people prefer not to walk or take transit

Reading this thread is basically suburban vs. urban or Mississauga vs. Toronto. As I said in an earlier post, there are pros and cons to both. For any anti-Mississauga people, you have to remember that most parts of Toronto are residential and suburban like Mississauga or Brampton anyway.

Painting all of Toronto like party core King St is a farce.
 
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- No bike lanes. Actually, aside from bike couriers you almost never see people riding bikes or rollerblading anywhere downtown unless they force themselves to go to Lakeshore or they want to do it at 11 pm at night. Too congested and unsafe to do it on the sidewalk or roads during normal hours.
Wow... I'm speechless. Have you ever been to downtown Toronto in the past 5 years??

You have lost all your credibility by saying this. Ever wonder why there are literally hundreds of bikes locked up every weekday at Bay & Dundas, all the racks are taken, and all the trees and street lights have bikes locked up too?
 
Wow... I'm speechless. Have you ever been to downtown Toronto in the past 5 years??

You have lost all your credibility by saying this. Ever wonder why there are literally hundreds of bikes locked up every weekday at Bay & Dundas, all the racks are taken, and all the trees and street lights have bikes locked up too?

His whole post reflects a complete misunderstanding of what makes a place urban and walkable. Does he really think a 2 foot strip of grass between the street and the sidewalk makes all the difference? And what about all those European cities? Terribly anti-pedestrian with their narrow sidewalks and short blocks. They should learn more from Mississauga ;)
 
Wow... I'm speechless. Have you ever been to downtown Toronto in the past 5 years??

You have lost all your credibility by saying this. Ever wonder why there are literally hundreds of bikes locked up every weekday at Bay & Dundas, all the racks are taken, and all the trees and street lights have bikes locked up too?

100s? Wow. And how many 10,000s of people work, go to school and live downtown?

And how many people get hurt or killed in that downtown area on foot or bike? Quite a few.

Fact is downtown is narrow streets, sidewalks and none/very few bike lanes. Add in lots of one-way streets and downtown is basically built as car friendly as possible. That's why street parking is prohitibited on major streets(allowing traffic flow), slow buses are restricted in favour of subway during rush hour and there are zero bike lanes.

As the other poster said, that's why intersections like Yonge/Wellesley overspill with people at intersections. Very common downtown as corners are small, sidewalks are narrow and too many people.
 
His whole post reflects a complete misunderstanding of what makes a place urban and walkable. Does he really think a 2 foot strip of grass between the street and the sidewalk makes all the difference? And what about all those European cities? Terribly anti-pedestrian with their narrow sidewalks and short blocks. They should learn more from Mississauga ;)

The "2 ft strip of grass" (more like probably 4-5 ft) in typical Mississauga sidealks isn't for walking. its buffer space. Also, it gives kids a strip by their property to play on. Unlike many downtown Toronto areas, walkers don't have to be sardined with cars and trucks passing them 1 ft away or having a taxi whiz by where the side mirror practically brushes your shoulder.

For busy areas, it also gives the city room for expansion, whether it's adding road space or expanding sidewalk space. Mississauga roads lanes are larger too, so with some magic civil engineering, expanding lanes (quanity or size) is rarely a problem for Mississauga. its all about city planning.

Also, the buffer space is good during winter as snowplows use it for snow piles. Sidewalk space is kept in tact. Also during rainy days, that buffer space is good for limiting splashback from cars when they drive through puddles.

Also, nothing wrong with some more green grass unlike downtown's concrete jungle of grey sidewalks and occasional rows of artificially planted trees done by the government or private business to spruce up the appearance.
 
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Just admit it, you haven't seen much of downtown Toronto in the past 5 years. It's quite obvious.

You're not fooling anybody.
 
As the other poster said, that's why intersections like Yonge/Wellesley overspill with people at intersections. Very common downtown as corners are small, sidewalks are narrow and too many people.

That other poster said Yonge & Wellesley was undeniably pedestrian friendly, and here you are trying - and failing - to suggest otherwise. Bay & Wellesley's sidewalks are about 3 times as wide and are used by about 1/3 as many pedestrians...are you going to conclude that it's 9 times more pedestrian friendly than Yonge & Wellesley?
 
Maybe this will help.

http://www3.thestar.com/static/googlemaps/starmaps_090610.html?xml=091021_commuting_cyclists.xml

Downtown Toronto has about 45 times more bike commuters per capita than central Mississauga, and ten times more walkers.

Yes there are sections of sidewalk which are too narrow, but most of Yonge Street and Bloor Streets sidewalks are wider than anything in Mississauga. The rest are about average.

Big deal. "45 times" and "10 times" means nothing since very few people in Mississauga bike/walk to work. They mostly drive or take transit. Easy drives and free parking. People in Mississauga bike for pleasure and exercise, not to commute to work to lock it up on a bike rack with 100s of others.

On the other hand, people who live in or close to the downtown core, bike for work if they live close enough, otherwise they'll take TTC or drive, although many don't even have cars even if they can afford it. You rarely see them bike for pleasure on their own or bike as a family with kids having a good time on a weekend.

Also, if the typical Toronto sidewalk is about average size, the fact there are many more walkers makes it less pedestrian friendly. And I'm not just talking about the extreme high volume of people downtown. Congestion, overflow into streets at intersections and a general safety issue.
 
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That other poster said Yonge & Wellesley was undeniably pedestrian friendly, and here you are trying - and failing - to suggest otherwise. Bay & Wellesley's sidewalks are about 3 times as wide and are used by about 1/3 as many pedestrians...are you going to conclude that it's 9 times more pedestrian friendly than Yonge & Wellesley?

How can an intersection be pedestrian friendly when sidealks are narrow and people overflow into the street since corners are so crammed with people?

And that's not just for Yonge/Wells. Basically any major intersection at Yonge/(something) is similar.

If Bay/Wells has large sidealks and relatively few people, then that's good for that corner. It doesn't help anything congested on Yonge.

That goes to show how poor Toronto's sidewalk planning is if one majr intersection has a very good space/traffic flow while another major intersection just a few blocks away is the exact opposite.
 
On the other hand, people who live in or close to the downtown core, bike for work if they live close enough, otherwise they'll take TTC or drive, although many don't even have cars even if they can afford it. You rarely see them bike for pleasure on their own or bike as a family with kids having a good time on a weekend.


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hockeybuddy - I'm not sure what you're arguing here. You're sending mixed signals about both Toronto and Mississauga, undoing things said by others before you and feeding into the stereotypes about Mississauga that people are trying to dispel.

Where is it that you actually live/work, as you seem not to have an on-the-ground knowledge of either place?
 
The "2 ft strip of grass" (more like probably 4-5 ft) in typical Mississauga sidealks isn't for walking. its buffer space. Also, it gives kids a strip by their property to play on. Unlike many downtown Toronto areas, walkers don't have to be sardined with cars and trucks passing them 1 ft away or having a taxi whiz by where the side mirror practically brushes your shoulder.

For busy areas, it also gives the city room for expansion, whether it's adding road space or expanding sidewalk space. Mississauga roads lanes are larger too, so with some magic civil engineering, expanding lanes (quanity or size) is rarely a problem for Mississauga. its all about city planning.

Also, the buffer space is good during winter as snowplows use it for snow piles. Sidewalk space is kept in tact. Also during rainy days, that buffer space is good for limiting splashback from cars when they drive through puddles.

Also, nothing wrong with some more green grass unlike downtown's concrete jungle of grey sidewalks and occasional rows of artificially planted trees done by the government or private business to spruce up the appearance.


I have never, ever seen kids playing on those little plots of grass. All things considered, they don't really help to make the area much more pedestrian friendly either, especially when there are many neighbourhoods that don't even have sidewalks on both sides of the street.
 
How can an intersection be pedestrian friendly when sidealks are narrow and people overflow into the street since corners are so crammed with people?

And that's not just for Yonge/Wells. Basically any major intersection at Yonge/(something) is similar.

If Bay/Wells has large sidealks and relatively few people, then that's good for that corner. It doesn't help anything congested on Yonge.

That goes to show how poor Toronto's sidewalk planning is if one majr intersection has a very good space/traffic flow while another major intersection just a few blocks away is the exact opposite.

The intersections can be overcrowded at times, but overall Yonge Street is very pedestrian friendly.
 

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