Why the Hate for Mississauga?

[scarberiankhatru]

lol

You've basically described yourself. You're so obsessed with labeling people as either pro or anti-suburbs, nothing else matters.

I suggest you re-read the thread because kettal isn't the one who brought up Hurontario, and more than one person, including yourself, has taken issue with the idea that it isn't pedestrian friendly for the most part.

It's great the forum has an "ignore" feature.

Pro- or anti-suburbs has nothing to do with it: what you are is a moron for failing to appreciate the many degrees of pedestrian friendliness between a 400-series highway and Queen Street.

edit - other people, including myself, take issue, in a thread questioning stereotypes, with places being deemed only either pedestrian friendly or unfriendly instead of existing on a continuum derived from a host of complex measurements. There's more to it than pre-war = friendly, post-war = unfriendly. There's more to it than "well, it looks unfriendly" or "it's unfriendly because I say so." Who gets to decide what's measured or the weight of various measurements? Yonge & Wellesley is undeniably pedestrian friendly, but the sidewalks are so narrow that people are constantly forced to step into traffic or walk on the road at the intersection. Is Bay & Wellesley more friendly because the sidewalks are metres wider and the intersection, frankly, less dangerous?

 

[AgentOrange]

I was born and raised in Mississauga. Lived there from birth up until my teens in the same house just south of the QEW and west of Cawthra that had a nice big backyard and a pool, lots of neighbourhood kids and road hockey games. I then moved out and got a place of my own in the building across from the PC Go station which had everything in the area that I needed and I didn't even need a license.

I loved growing up in Mississauga, well atleast this part of it.

Awesome Public schools growing up and plenty of friends from the neighbouring Catholic ones.

Harvey's on the Lakeshore was huge until the McDonalds was built.

Saturday morning trips to Canadian Tire (I eventually worked there years later) and then the A&P along with my father picking up beer at the Beer Store.

Biking with friends down Lakeshore, checking out Bert's (used and new hockey equipment store) and Lascala's music store.

Growing up playing various levels of baseball at Neil C Matheson, Allen A, Waterworks and several other locations in Mississauga.

Cawthra Park SS was an awesome highschool and I had friends all over Mississauga because of it. I hung out in Erindale, had friends on Folkway Drive, Streetsville and other places.

Square One was the mall and easy to get to via the route 19 bus but Dixie Mall was closer and usually went to first. Sherway Gardens was also near by.

There is nothing wrong with Mississauga. It is a great suburb that has practically everything one needs and is a very quick commute to downtown Toronto.

I now have lived in downtown Toronto since my mid 20's and love it because it perfectly fits my needs now.

 

[kettal]

Pro- or anti-suburbs has nothing to do with it: what you are is a moron for failing to appreciate the many degrees of pedestrian friendliness between a 400-series highway and Queen Street.

edit - other people, including myself, take issue, in a thread questioning stereotypes, with places being deemed only either pedestrian friendly or unfriendly instead of existing on a continuum derived from a host of complex measurements. There's more to it than pre-war = friendly, post-war = unfriendly. There's more to it than "well, it looks unfriendly" or "it's unfriendly because I say so." Who gets to decide what's measured or the weight of various measurements? Yonge & Wellesley is undeniably pedestrian friendly, but the sidewalks are so narrow that people are constantly forced to step into traffic or walk on the road at the intersection. Is Bay & Wellesley more friendly because the sidewalks are metres wider and the intersection, frankly, less dangerous?

The best indicator of pedestrian friendliness is the number of pedestrians using it. Many books have been written going into all the details and circumstances which have an influence on success and failures in this respect.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The best indicator of pedestrian friendliness is the number of pedestrians using it. Many books have been written going into all the details and circumstances which have an influence on success and failures in this respect.

Please acknowledge how silly it is to condemn an undeveloped field that no one has any reason to walk through yet as pedestrian unfriendly on the grounds of a lack of pedestrians.

 

[kettal]

The land uses (or lack of) surrounding the street have an undeniable influence on the pedestrian friendliness of the street. I never denied that.

You might say it was silly for me to bring it up, giving the circumstances of the area, but I only brought it up as an argument against somebody's earlier statement.

I maintain that Hurontario here has so much working against it, factors which I needn't repeat yet again, that it won't ever be the ideal showpiece main street for downtown Mississauga.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The land uses (or lack of) surrounding the street have an undeniable influence on the pedestrian friendliness of the street. I never denied that.

You might say it was silly for me to bring it up, giving the circumstances of the area, but I only brought it up as an argument against somebody's earlier statement.

I maintain that Hurontario here has so much working against it, factors which I needn't repeat yet again, that it won't ever be the ideal showpiece main street for downtown Mississauga.

The block closest to the 403 interchange is not intended to be the ideal showcase main street, and you know that. You fail to counter anything doady says by reducing the entirety of Hurontario to its interchange with the 403.

 

[kettal]

Allow me to repeat myself once again. Hurontario, inclusive of the area from about (roughly) Dundas Street, all the way through to (roughly) Steeles functions heavily as a collector for cars and trucks on and off of the various freeways. This is inclusive of the "downtown" section, and the high level of through traffic is detrimental to creating a multi-modal urban avenue.

Also, if it is to attract pedestrians, they will have to come from north of the downtown, not just the south. The interchanges are highly repellent to non-motorized usage, and an alternative route across the 403 is important.

To make Hurontario attractive for such uses, it would involve heavily modifying, perhaps even removing the ramps, and another road would have to be built for the purpose of access to the freeways. I say what's the point of changing Hurontario beyond recognition, when you can just start anew?

 

[kettal]

I was born and raised in Mississauga. Lived there from birth up until my teens in the same house just south of the QEW and west of Cawthra that had a nice big backyard and a pool, lots of neighbourhood kids and road hockey games. I then moved out and got a place of my own in the building across from the PC Go station which had everything in the area that I needed and I didn't even need a license.

I loved growing up in Mississauga, well atleast this part of it.

Awesome Public schools growing up and plenty of friends from the neighbouring Catholic ones.

Harvey's on the Lakeshore was huge until the McDonalds was built.

Saturday morning trips to Canadian Tire (I eventually worked there years later) and then the A&P along with my father picking up beer at the Beer Store.

Biking with friends down Lakeshore, checking out Bert's (used and new hockey equipment store) and Lascala's music store.

Growing up playing various levels of baseball at Neil C Matheson, Allen A, Waterworks and several other locations in Mississauga.

Cawthra Park SS was an awesome highschool and I had friends all over Mississauga because of it. I hung out in Erindale, had friends on Folkway Drive, Streetsville and other places.

Square One was the mall and easy to get to via the route 19 bus but Dixie Mall was closer and usually went to first. Sherway Gardens was also near by.

There is nothing wrong with Mississauga. It is a great suburb that has practically everything one needs and is a very quick commute to downtown Toronto.

I now have lived in downtown Toronto since my mid 20's and love it because it perfectly fits my needs now.

I also grew up in the suburbs, and in several different styles, from townhouses to mcmansions to rooming houses. Port credit is certainly among the best I know of. But most of the suburbs in the GTA are the kind of places where parents have to keep their kids on a short leash.Sending them on a bike ride to anywhere useful is considered unsafe, and for good reason.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

You're not repeating anything (or, really, explaining). It's simply inaccurate to characterize Hurontario as a through-traffic funnel. The block next to the 403 interchange, maybe, but why (aside from cyclists' interchangaphobia) keep reducing Hurontario to this one block? It has nothing in common with Dundas other than the street name.

Why expect people to walk from north of the 403 when they can take transit? Walking from Eglinton to City Hall is quite a long way. Would you expect more than a handful of people to walk for half an hour across the Bloor Viaduct instead of taking the subway to get to Yonge & Bloor? Transit users actually form a significant percentage of all travellers along Hurontario. Not as high as Bloor, of course, but you have to start somewhere. Confederation Parkway was extended over the 403, and I expect one or two more streets to be done in the future.

Downtown Mississauga was started anew...there's no conceivable reason to think ditching an intensely developing area and established transit corridor to start anew *again* would work any better, particularly since there's a massive amount of empty land left in downtown Mississauga, and a massive amount of infill potential along Hurontario - and the road width to actually create a multi-modal avenue.

If your goal is to turn the 403 itself into an urban avenue, then, yes, the Hurontario interchange is an insurmountable problem. But that's not your goal, nor is it anyone else's.

 

[kettal]

Downtown Mississauga was started anew...there's no conceivable reason to think ditching an intensely developing area and established transit corridor to start anew *again* would work any better, particularly since there's a massive amount of empty land left in downtown Mississauga, and a massive amount of infill potential along Hurontario - and the road width to actually create a multi-modal avenue.

Haven't we already concluded that Downtown Mississauga was built in perhaps the least transit friendly way possible? The very problem with it is design mistakes like putting enormous empty spaces between developments, putting city hall, and the library, and YMCA, etc, pathetically far out of the way of the main transit corridor? And so on.

I predict the Confederation Pkwy, or perhaps Duke of York Blvd, will be used as the alignment for the future LRT through downtown, not Hurontario. In fact, the displays from the open houses suggest just that, IIRC.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Haven't we already concluded that Downtown Mississauga was built in perhaps the least transit friendly way possible? The very problem with it is design mistakes like putting enormous empty spaces between developments, putting city hall, and the library, and YMCA, etc, pathetically far out of the way of the main transit corridor? And so on.

I predict the Confederation Pkwy, or perhaps Duke of York Blvd, will be used as the alignment for the future LRT through downtown, not Hurontario. In fact, the displays from the open houses suggest just that, IIRC.

Of course there's empty spaces. It's not finished.

The main problem is not the 403 interchange or specific choices to place this here or that there, it's simply that Downtown Mississauga is far too big...too big to be uniformly walkable or to serve with one transit line. The mistake may be trying to connect the dots with one loopy line that leaves Hurontario for a few blocks rather than, say, run a second or third line out to serve other places. The area's like 2km by 2km, so it's not like it's so compact that one terminal/connection is remotely capable of properly serving the entirety of downtown Mississauga. If everything built so far had been built right along Hurontario, the corridor would now be full and anything else - like future offices or the umpteen future condos or future schools or anything else - would have to be built away from the transit line, which helps nobody. Even then, the transit line would have to serve Square One, which overwhelms everything else. They're way beyond focusing on one axis (or even two, like Yonge & Eglinton) so there's no point pretending one transit line will work miracles.

 

[GenerationW]

Looks like pedestrians are allergic to sidewalks in both of these places. Are those cops on the right?

Though in fairness, we don't have a full view of the west sidewalk in the second picture.

 

[kettal]

Of course there's empty spaces. It's not finished.

The main problem is not the 403 interchange or specific choices to place this here or that there, it's simply that Downtown Mississauga is far too big...too big to be uniformly walkable or to serve with one transit line. The mistake may be trying to connect the dots with one loopy line that leaves Hurontario for a few blocks rather than, say, run a second or third line out to serve other places. The area's like 2km by 2km, so it's not like it's so compact that one terminal/connection is remotely capable of properly serving the entirety of downtown Mississauga. If everything built so far had been built right along Hurontario, the corridor would now be full and anything else - like future offices or the umpteen future condos or future schools or anything else - would have to be built away from the transit line, which helps nobody. Even then, the transit line would have to serve Square One, which overwhelms everything else. They're way beyond focusing on one axis (or even two, like Yonge & Eglinton) so there's no point pretending one transit line will work miracles.

...which is exactly what I meant. Downtown Mississauga, so far, has been designed in such a way that is difficult to serve with higher order transit.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

...which is exactly what I meant. Downtown Mississauga, so far, has been designed in such a way that is difficult to serve with higher order transit.

Not really. It's difficult to serve with one transit line, but not transit in general. A GO line would be a help though, and may in the future become a missing element, but stops like Cooksville are close (YUS loop distance or closer) and LRT/bus connections with the rest of Mississauga are more important. Like it or not, the 403 is good for express buses. If transit lines were built on both Hurontario and, say, Burnhamthorpe, it'd help the area more than one line that wanders around trying in vain to serve an enormous area. The current bus terminal may be better off elsewhere. A massive area like central Mississauga needs more than a single transit terminus that makes it super easy to get to Square One from random parts of Mississauga but doesn't do that much for people trying to get from random spots near Square One to other random spots.

 

[kettal]

You realize, right, that the reason MCC is so spread out and sparse is because the original designers never thought that future transportation would involve anything but cars.

For one thing, it would have been built from one centre point or corridor, expanding outwards, not specks in random spots all over the place, and the centre itself would have been closer to the railway station, not a spot seemingly chosen for proximity to the 403 off ramp.