Why the Hate for Mississauga?

[urbandreamer]

^Roller blading is rather passé--very 90's. However, I see people blading along Bloor West through the Annex, College Street, K-Market and more.

Miss may have nice homes, but when you're bored, can you just leave the house and go for a nice 3 hour stroll past endless art galleries, shops and cafes window shopping and people watching?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

And you don't think it's sad that the art of city building was totally lost in a generation? Is it not worthy of my criticism?

Your criticism is as cookie-cutter as Mississauga's houses. They haven't even built their downtown yet and you're wishing they'd start over.

 

[kettal]

Your criticism is as cookie-cutter as Mississauga's houses.

That doesn't make it any less accurate.

They haven't even built their downtown yet and you're wishing they'd start over.

In my very first post in this thread, I said how much I hope Mississauga is successful building it's downtown...

 

[Anth]

Jesus, Rome wasn't built in a day. What do you want from an area that was farmer's fields only a few decades ago, exactly?

You can't force development to suddenly appear; you just try to encourage it and hope for the best.

Maybe Mississauga's planning wasn't perfect in retrospect (it was a product of its time like anything else), but it's not like builders were scrambling over each other to develop the area before now anyway.

Knitting together a few scattered villages with a whole lot of nothing between them isn't exactly a trivial task and the fact that Mississauga has any cohesion at all is a success in itself.

 

[threnody]

Jesus, Rome wasn't built in a day. What do you want from an area that was farmer's fields only a few decades ago, exactly?

You can't force development to suddenly appear; you just try to encourage it and hope for the best.

Maybe Mississauga's planning wasn't perfect in retrospect (it was a product of its time like anything else), but it's not like builders were scrambling over each other to develop the area before now anyway.

Knitting together a few scattered villages with a whole lot of nothing between them isn't exactly a trivial task and the fact that Mississauga has any cohesion at all is a success in itself.

You can't force development, but you can certainly inform and guide it. Instead, Mississauga allowed developers to build runaway sprawl. Some people are understandably skeptical of the sudden change of heart, which seems to be driven more by necessity (no more greenfields to develop) than an acknowledgment of past mistakes.

 

[Anth]

You can't force development, but you can certainly inform and guide it. Instead, Mississauga allowed developers to build runaway sprawl.

Sure, but my claim is that developers weren't going to build anything else on all those greenfields anyway, so Mississauga had little choice in the matter if it wanted to grow and link up the few established communities into something bigger.

We're kidding ourselves (and a lot of Mississaugans do) if we view the city as anything other than an outgrowth of Toronto proper. No planning in the world could've changed that fact and encouraged the kind of centralized urban development seen in standalone cities.

Even today, MCC can be considered an important node in the larger urban region, but Mississauga's true core will always be downtown Toronto. So to expect similar amenities and development in the periphery is unrealistic and to criticize their absence is absurd.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

That doesn't make it any less accurate.

In my very first post in this thread, I said how much I hope Mississauga is successful building it's downtown...

But you're not accurate (and that's not even counting the fact that you're basing everything on what an area looks like...Cornell looks nice, for instance, but failed to achieve any of its goals other than getting houses sold and occupied). The Hurontario/403/Rathburn interchange is not Mississasuga's main street, nor should it be, and nor is it intended to be. The York exit loop off the Gardiner, or even all of Lakeshore itself, doesn't compromise downtown Toronto.

You made a backhanded compliment in the first post, and in the second post, you wished they'd start over on their downtown.

I saw the post you deleted...

 

[TrickyRicky]

The challenge Mississauga has, and I think most people can agree on this, is how do you make a more dynamic urban environment given the scale of existing infrastructure patterns and land partitioning? This is something all cities in the GTA are struggling with.

Just look at the new developments in Toronto itself, we don't come close to getting things right here either. Infact I would be so bold as to say that most new developments in Toronto are unsuccessful. The only one's we do get right are those that are infill, or naturally constraint by the existing scale and land partitioning patterns established 100 years ago. So in this sense there is nothing superior about development in Toronto as that in Peel region or elsewhere. Sure some higher end projects may get higher grade facade treatment or finishings as a function of cost per square foot but frankly for most developments it's just putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The scale is a problem. Downtown Mississauga is huge...it's really not any smaller than Toronto's core. It'll take decades to fill it all in. This is why Hurontario wouldn't work as a main street even if it was planned to be turned into one. Main streets work infinitely better if they evolve over time because people and stores and institutions want to locate there - with the bus terminal and the city hall and the library over to the west of Square One, Hurontario is on the wrong side of downtown, though there's no guarantee the Duke of York area will turn out spectacular, either.

Marilyn is on Hurontario, but the gargoyles aren't...perhaps the workable solution is to go all Solomon's judgment on Square One, cleave the mall apart, and create a new main street out of its carcass. This is the long-term direction Mississauga seems to be headed in, and it's not a bad one, since suburban downtowns and malls do not mix.

 

[kettal]

Marilyn is on Hurontario, but the gargoyles aren't...perhaps the workable solution is to go all Solomon's judgment on Square One, cleave the mall apart, and create a new main street out of its carcass. This is the long-term direction Mississauga seems to be headed in, and it's not a bad one, since suburban downtowns and malls do not mix.

And this is any better, or more respectful, than my suggestion to carve a main street out of the tract housing north of Cooksville station??

Honestly, I can't see why "plow it down and start over" is a sin when I say it, but peachy when you do.

 

[hockeybuddy]

Sure, but my claim is that developers weren't going to build anything else on all those greenfields anyway, so Mississauga had little choice in the matter if it wanted to grow and link up the few established communities into something bigger.

We're kidding ourselves (and a lot of Mississaugans do) if we view the city as anything other than an outgrowth of Toronto proper. No planning in the world could've changed that fact and encouraged the kind of centralized urban development seen in standalone cities.

Even today, MCC can be considered an important node in the larger urban region, but Mississauga's true core will always be downtown Toronto. So to expect similar amenities and development in the periphery is unrealistic and to criticize their absence is absurd.

Agreed.

Why anyone thinks a suburban city like Miss that has about 700,000 people should be comparable to all the stuff a large urban city like Toronto (probably 3,000,000 people+) is insane. Also, Toronto has been around for 100 years. Miss has really only picked up in people and offices for maybe the last 30 years. Just 20 years ago, there was hardly anything even around the City Hall Sq 1 area.

If anyone wants to hang where the action is, they go to downtown Toronto. That 2-3 km radius from downtown where clubs, bars. theatre etc.... but no more. Or for less sizzle Yonge/Eglinton. In fact, for all the hoopla Toronto gets, about 95% of its land area is really no more fun or exciting than any suburb. It'll be residential housing after residential housing, coupled with strip malls and corner stores.

But one thing is for sure, the Toronto suburb will be a lot older, dirtier and cramped than any suburb city residential development. Have fun with narrow roads, parallel parking and monthly street permits..... make sure to move your car when the snow plows come. Its that downtown area party core where the fun is.

I'll hang out in downtown T.O a few times a week for the fun with buddies, but back to Miss for clean living, spaciousness and cleaner air.

Let Toronto have the action, but all the crime, bums and issues at the same time.

There's trade-offs between suburb cities and urban cores.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I'll hang out in downtown T.O a few times a week for the fun with buddies, but back to Miss for clean living, spaciousness and cleaner air.

Let Toronto have the action, but all the crime, bums and issues at the same time.

You might want to re-write this.

 

[kettal]

But one thing is for sure, the Toronto suburb will be a lot older, dirtier and cramped than any suburb city residential development. Have fun with narrow roads, parallel parking and monthly street permits..... make sure to move your car when the snow plows come.

I don't experience any of this "have fun with..." concerns of yours... I don't own a car, and I reckon it saves me about $10K a year. Also saves me a lot of stress. But I can't imagine living in a big, clean, Mississauga cul-de-sac without a car. That's what the difference is.

Let Toronto have the action, but all the crime, bums and issues at the same time.

The bum's are living in Toronto for a reason. There's nothing stopping them from moving to a sidewalk in Mississauga, except that it's so boring even a bum doesn't want to live there.

 

[kettal]

The challenge Mississauga has, and I think most people can agree on this, is how do you make a more dynamic urban environment given the scale of existing infrastructure patterns and land partitioning? This is something all cities in the GTA are struggling with.

Just look at the new developments in Toronto itself, we don't come close to getting things right here either. Infact I would be so bold as to say that most new developments in Toronto are unsuccessful. The only one's we do get right are those that are infill, or naturally constraint by the existing scale and land partitioning patterns established 100 years ago. So in this sense there is nothing superior about development in Toronto as that in Peel region or elsewhere. Sure some higher end projects may get higher grade facade treatment or finishings as a function of cost per square foot but frankly for most developments it's just putting lipstick on a pig.

Most of the blame lays with the province. But during the 70s through 90s, Mississauga was so proud to point and laugh at Metro's comparatively progressive growth growth regulations. And now Hazel herself will admit she has built a monster.

Melbourne is now growing as fast as the GTA every year, and the state has just opened a huge greenfield in the north west for new development. Guess what is being done before the first house gets built? A new electrified regional rail line is being installed through the new area. They realize that is as important as any freeway or any sewer system. These concerns should have been in place as a pre-condition to the development we got in Mississauga, or any other suburb.

 

[nfitz]

Remember that in Region of York they are currently building the new subway line under farmer's fields ...

All Misssissauga had to do was ask and put up their 1/3!