Why the Hate for Mississauga?

[scarberiankhatru]

The number of pedestrians matters, but it's not the only thing. If it was, Roxborough would be pedestrian unfriendly, which only an idiot would agree with. Front is pedestrian unfriendly but sees many people, even hordes of them at times. There's nowhere else for them to walk and no transit on Front to take.

Like the typical suburban arterial, Hurontario is simply not uncomfortable to walk down unless you get a nosebleed north of Bloor and are personally offended by pavement and grass. Fortunately, real people aren't that spleeny. If you are, I suggest you see a doctor, or a therapist. You're basing everything on photos of one block next to the highway, a block that is fronted by a parking lot and an empty field. Why not condemn Yonge for the stretch near the 401? Warden and Hwy 7 are both so horrible that Markham is building two main streets in an effort to forget about them. Hwy 7 and anywhere is worse than Hurontario, and it's not like Mississauga tried to create some great urban wonderland on Hurontario and failed like Harbourfront or Oak in Regent Park, so why condemn Mississauga with the usual uninformed and insensitive 'eww, suburbs' posts? That's the point of this thread. Be glad there is a sidewalk...York Region probably wouldn't have built one.

 

[nfitz]

Violent crimes and muggings take place where there are few witnesses, and there is less chance of it being reported.

That's an interesting thesis ... but when you read the list of where these crimes happens, normally it's the opposite.

 

[Dan416]

Hurontario in a lot of places (403, 401, 407) is pedestrian unfriendly. Is ANY 400-series highway interchange pedestrian friendly, ever?

I don't take issue with people saying Hurontario is pedestrian-unfriendly. However, you can't paint MCC with a Hurontario brush. MCC is pretty separate from Hurontario, even though it includes it. When I think of MCC, I think of Square One and Duke of York and Rathburn. Those steets are fine for pedestrians. In fact there's always pedestrians around Square One, even in the winter.

 

[kettal]

Like the typical suburban arterial, Hurontario is simply not uncomfortable to walk down unless you get a nosebleed north of Bloor and are personally offended by pavement and grass. Fortunately, real people aren't that spleeny. If you are, I suggest you see a doctor, or a therapist. You're basing everything on photos of one block next to the highway, a block that is fronted by a parking lot and an empty field. Why not condemn Yonge for the stretch near the 401?
Warden and Hwy 7 are both so horrible that Markham is building two main streets in an effort to forget about them.

I do bring up criticism of Yonge @ 401, at every opportunity. Especially when the perennially brilliant idea of a 401-rapid transit idea comes up. I agree Hwy 7 sucks, it is a failure in every sense of the term, from traffic flow to aesthetics, and Markham is doing the right thing to try sweep it under the rug. Most York arterials, while not great by any stretch, are still narrower and more pleasant than their Mississauga counterparts. But we're comparing horse shit to donkey shit here.

 

[kettal]

Hurontario in a lot of places (403, 401, 407) is pedestrian unfriendly. Is ANY 400-series highway interchange pedestrian friendly, ever?

None that I can think of, which is why I consider that placing a city centre at such an interchange was a bad idea.

 

[kettal]

That's an interesting thesis ... but when you read the list of where these crimes happens, normally it's the opposite.

Hhahaa this is the same logic people use to declare Toronto unsafe. It has more crimes because there are more people there, but the rate of crime is lower. Think about it.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I do bring up criticism of Yonge @ 401, at every opportunity. Especially when the perennially brilliant idea of a 401-rapid transit idea comes up. I agree Hwy 7 sucks, it is a failure in every sense of the term, from traffic flow to aesthetics, and Markham is doing the right thing to try sweep it under the rug. Most York arterials, while not great by any stretch, are still narrower and more pleasant than their Mississauga counterparts.

Yonge between Sheppard & the 401 is part of North York Centre, which a few posts ago you were lauding as so very superior to Hurontario. This stretch is actually quite dismal and terrible to walk along even though it scores quite well on your rote checklist of pedestrian friendly features. It is a failure not just because of what it is but because of what it pretends to be. Unlike Hurontario, though, a fair amount of effort is going into improving this stretch, and none of it is paying off. Apples to oranges.

Hwy 7 is worse than Hurontario, even if you're just looking at Hurontario's highway interchanges. It's lined with ditches, for god's sake.

 

[kettal]

And besides suburbs are large, spacious and spread out. Its both car friendly (lots of lanes and wide too) and no parked cars along the street clogging up lanes, and also people friendly for those who want to walk, roller blade or ride a bike on the safety of the sidewalk. Suburbs have large sidewalks which are for the most park barren. Lots of space for anyone wanting to use it. its not uncommon to see parents riding their bikes on the sidewalk with young kids following them. Safety helmets and all. You'll never see that anywhere downtown or even within a 3-4 km radius, unless they force themselves to go all the way down to Lakeshore. I can't even remember the last time I saw someone chilling out by rollerblading anywhere downtown. Too congested.

Any adult who rides a full-sized bike on a sidewalk is braking provincial law. It is also much more dangerous, as turning cars never look for who is crossing the sidewalk on a bike at suburban intersections. I have had many close calls at this myself. I feel much safer riding on any downtown road. It's the safety in numbers effect.

Biking is a lot more popular in downtown Toronto than any suburb, and I'm not going to bother backing this up with numbers, because anybody with eyes knows this to be true. If you look at the side-streets in Little Italy or Riverdale, you will see plenty of families riding. I often see roller-bladers and skateboarders using the bike lane on college street. I've done it myself, it's heaps of fun

 

[kettal]

Yonge between Sheppard & the 401 is part of North York Centre, which a few posts ago you were lauding as so very superior to Hurontario. This stretch is actually quite dismal and terrible to walk along even though it scores quite well on your rote checklist of pedestrian friendly features.

Obviously I was talking about just north of Sheppard.

Hwy 7 is worse than Hurontario, even if you're just looking at Hurontario's highway interchanges. It's lined with ditches, for god's sake.

I agree.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Obviously I was talking about just north of Sheppard.

When you're picking and choosing select, unidentified portions of streets with one hand and bashing the suburbs in general with the other, no it's not obvious. I could have said Front street sucks and is horrible to walk down, but it's really, really nice east of University. Yonge is great between Sheppard and Finch and not half a block farther north or south. The street really isn't built any differently immediately north or south, but the character changes on a dime.

 

[kettal]

And I also said that I like Highway 10 at Brampton centre, and Hurontario in Port Credit. What's your point?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

And I also said that I like Highway 10 at Brampton centre, and Hurontario in Port Credit. What's your point?

Post 1: "OMG, Hurontario sucks!!!"

Post 2: "These parts of Hurontario sucks for these reasons, and these other parts are fine for those reasons. It may not for reasons you expect...I'm actually thinking about it!"

Note the title and purpose of this thread, and figure out for yourself why Post 2 is better and generally less doltish.

 

[kettal]

I stand by what I said, but since you want to be specific: Hurontario between Dundas and Steeles is largely an unattractive street and is over-wide and too pedestrian averse for a "city" already overbuilt in terms of highways and expressways.

I am confident that this is the kind of planning mistake that Hazel herself regrets and would do differently if starting over. Hopefully we can learn from these mistakes, recognize the failures, and not hold Mississauga (OBLIGATORY DISCLAIMER: most of Mississauga north of Dundas, with several exceptions) as a model for city building, as it has been regarded for the past 40 years.

I make no apologies for my opinion and I hope these concerns are taken seriously by all growing cities.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Spewing the usual anti-suburban tripe to trigger a flamewar and then 'clarifying' it in another post that someone may never see or read is really stupid in a thread asking why Mississauga bears a disproportionate brunt of anti-suburban tripe on this and other forums. How wonderfully insightful it is to note that the empty lots around the Hurontario/403 interchange see few pedestrians.

Yonge in North York is a pre-war main street. Hurontario at the 403 could never have been that, let alone something like Yorkville, or Port Credit. The mistake was putting downtown Mississauga and Square One in the same place, not putting downtown Mississauga in a field next to the 403.

 

[kettal]

Yonge in North York is a pre-war main street. Hurontario at the 403 could never have been that, let alone something like Yorkville, or Port Credit.

And you don't think it's sad that the art of city building was totally lost in a generation? Is it not worthy of my criticism?