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Where is "downtown Toronto"?

Look at an aerial photo of central Toronto. See where all those tall (20+ floors) buildings are heavily concentrated? That's downtown. Pretty simple.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
Here's another take: Ryerson is a downtown campus. So is George Brown. UofT is most definitely not.
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But as more proof that "it depends where you're coming from", relative to UTM and UTSC (and York, for that matter), U of T is definitely commonly considered to be "downtown". Sure, not an "urban campus" kind of "downtown" a la Ryerson or GBC, but...
 
As a Mississaugan, when I attended U of T, I always considered it part of "downtown". I'm pretty sure U of T literature refers to St. George's "downtown" location.
 
adma said:
But as more proof that "it depends where you're coming from", relative to UTM and UTSC (and York, for that matter), U of T is definitely commonly considered to be "downtown". Sure, not an "urban campus" kind of "downtown" a la Ryerson or GBC, but...
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Yeah, but it's fun arguing in this particular circle...

Back in the early '90s, when the upper West Side was still pretty Hell's Kitchen-ish, a Toronto buddy & I visited a friend who lived in a nice building a couple of blocks off the park -- 60's or 70's. He worked with Merrill at WFC, and with hangovers on a Friday morning and expecting to meet him after work for a pint near his office, the Toronto buddy and I walked all the way downtown. Over an early evening pint, he basically said we had taken our lives in our hands, walking through some of the craziness between 'midtown' and 'downtown'. Colin and I had basically walked through 70+ blocks of Manhattan without noticing much of a difference between 'nabes, but for Matt, it was 'no-go' zones, culture corners, cool 'nabes, social housing. It really depends on where you're from.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
I understand that BMO/Manulife/Rogers have offices on Bloor. There's an office tower beside the shopping mall at Lawrence West station, and it's not downtown, either.

Since you didn't like my last definition, how 'bout this: downtown is where you can get out at Union Station and reasonably walk to your business or pleasure. So, Southcore/ACC/Rogers are definitely downtown, despite being south of the tracks. Taking PATH or Yonge, you can be at Yonge/Dundas square in a reasonable time frame. But, if you're going to the CNE/Distillery/Yorkville, it's a hike and probably new leg of transportation.

Here's another take: Ryerson is a downtown campus. So is George Brown. UofT is most definitely not.

Here's another: City Hall is downtown, as are St. Mike's/Old City Hall/Massey/Roy Thomson. Queen's Park is midtown. As is Toronto Gen/MARs/Sick Kids.
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While this is all subjective I can't help but think that your categorisation is inappropriate.

Your definition of downtown renders downtown size static, which is not really appropriate I think.

Also, U of T and Queen's Park are 1.9km away from Union. Ryerson is 1.5km away. Yonge and College 1.8.

It's not really that much of a difference.

What you are describing I like to call Old Town Toronto, seeing as it encompasses the areas that historically made up the city. This is in spite of of the many modern buildings you can find there today.
 
RC8 said:
What you are describing I like to call Old Town Toronto, seeing as it encompasses the areas that historically made up the city. This is in spite of of the many modern buildings you can find there today.
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Though "Old Town Toronto" to me connotes the St Lawrence/original Town of York zone...
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
Back in the early '90s, when the upper West Side was still pretty Hell's Kitchen-ish, a Toronto buddy & I visited a friend who lived in a nice building a couple of blocks off the park -- 60's or 70's. He worked with Merrill at WFC, and with hangovers on a Friday morning and expecting to meet him after work for a pint near his office, the Toronto buddy and I walked all the way downtown. Over an early evening pint, he basically said we had taken our lives in our hands, walking through some of the craziness between 'midtown' and 'downtown'. Colin and I had basically walked through 70+ blocks of Manhattan without noticing much of a difference between 'nabes, but for Matt, it was 'no-go' zones, culture corners, cool 'nabes, social housing. It really depends on where you're from.
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In the case of NYC, the simple name "Manhattan" obviates the need for too broad a "Downtown" definition.
 
adma said:
In the case of NYC, the simple name "Manhattan" obviates the need for too broad a "Downtown" definition.
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The entirety of Manhattan is certainly not "downtown." And the other boroughs, most notably Brooklyn, have their own "downtowns."

That said, where New York's downtown begins seems to depend on what you want to do when you get there.

Go to an art gallery = south of 23rd street

Go to dinner = south of 14th Street

Go to a club = south of Houston Street

Go to work = south of Canal Street

I think of Toronto as having a Central Business District rather than a "downtown," which, in addition to being an apparent Americanism, occasionally has class connotations that I think we can do without.
 
adma said:
In the case of NYC, the simple name "Manhattan" obviates the need for too broad a "Downtown" definition.
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Well, as a newly-transplanted North Yorker who lived in "Uptown" (Yonge and Sheppard) then migrated to "Midtown" (Mount Pleasant and Davisville) to who-knows-where (Bay and Bloor), I've already encountered people (almost never actually *from* Toronto) who say St. Clair is "the boonies", sort of the Toronto equivalent of this:

new-yorker-cartoon1.jpg


So it's really anyone's guess at this point.
 
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In New York, "Downtown" is more of a direction than a place. Though in my own view, I'd place true "Downtown" Manhattan below Houston. Midtown, of course, being in the 30s and 40s around the two train stations, the department stores, Times Square, and the ESB, Chrysler Building and the Rockefeller Center. There's no "Uptown" that I can think of, that's just a direction.

There is such a "Downtown" Toronto, but it will vary from person to person. I generally go with close-in boundaries to define it separate from the residential and retail neighbourhoods around it. I really narrow that down to include Yorkville (but no further), Bathurst, Sherbourne and the lake. The Annex isn't downtown in my view. I'm living in Brockton right now, and people I work with consider that downtown (even those living in North York), but I never did, and I grew up in the 905.
 
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CDL.TO said:
I've noticed that too. People from rural Ontario, other provinces, and even other countries are the worst "south of Bloor" types I know. What's with that?
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I've long had a theory that people not from Toronto who are so desperate to shed whatever resentments they have about their small-town/rural upbringing and other perceived slights arrive in Toronto, overcompensate in the extreme and try to out-Toronto Torontonians. I can think of no other reasons, and this applies to everyone I've met from North York, Mississauga, Halifax, Victoria, and all points in between, again and again and again in a predictable pattern. And then, of course, Toronto ranks high (first?) in most-disliked cities in the country. Go figure.
 
I dunno. I was born and raised in northwestern Ontario, and when I moved to Toronto in my early twenties I naturally was most attracted to the most "urban" part of Toronto, the dynamic, highrise-filled central district. There was no "shedding resentment" since I never had any, it was simply that downtown Toronto was the most non-small-town (and hence the most different and exciting) part of the city. The rest of the city was not that different from what I grew up in, so did not attract as much interest from me.

Of course, after I had lived here for a while, I eventually grew to appreciate the value of the rest of the city, but downtown will always be "Toronto" to me.
 
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