VIA Rail

[nfitz]

There is a certain amount of cottage country around Sharbot Lake. Winter may be a different story, but a stop somewhere in the middle might draw people who don't want to make a winter weather drive all the way to Ottawa or Toronto.

Having once as a starving student made my way to the family cottage for Christmas north of Montreal, by taking the former daily VIA Rail service to Lanoraie (which would presumably be reactivated with this proposal) ... and after being pulled through the Mount Royal tunnel by a WWI-era electric locomotive, arrived at a surprisingly heated, but empty train station, on an RDC so ancient that as far as I recall, the freight portion had a wooden floor, and stood outside the train station with well shovelled trails leading off in the darkness in 2 directions, wondering which one I should try first, to get to a road ...

No. It won't draw people. Though I'm sure the guy with the plowing and heating contract would appreciate it.

Is there anyone else who has actually travelled to any of these flag stops on now-abandoned railway lines that disagrees with me?

(I have no idea why the station as called Lanoraie, as looking at the map, it's a lot closer to St-Thomas.)

 

[kEiThZ]

They definitely need a stop north of Pickering or thereabouts. An Eastern GTA stop if you will. No stop between Eglinton and Peterborough is nuts.

 

[Kitsune]

Having once as a starving student made my way to the family cottage for Christmas north of Montreal, by taking the former daily VIA Rail service to Lanoraie (which would presumably be reactivated with this proposal) ... and after being pulled through the Mount Royal tunnel by a WWI-era electric locomotive, arrived at a surprisingly heated, but empty train station, on an RDC so ancient that as far as I recall, the freight portion had a wooden floor, and stood outside the train station with well shovelled trails leading off in the darkness in 2 directions, wondering which one I should try first, to get to a road ...

No. It won't draw people. Though I'm sure the guy with the plowing and heating contract would appreciate it.

Is there anyone else who has actually travelled to any of these flag stops on now-abandoned railway lines that disagrees with me?

(I have no idea why the station as called Lanoraie, as looking at the map, it's a lot closer to St-Thomas.)

.. kinda reminds me of the Sudbury stop on the Canadian. Litterally in the middle of no ones land and the trains always arrive overnight. Doesnt help the station sits in a heavy equipment junkyard too.

 

[kEiThZ]

Really, HFR will stop at Tweed and Sharbot Lake? those are tiny little villages. I hope they only make a few trains a day at most make those stops.

Those look to me like stations to serve the parallel communities along the Lakeshore. Tweed would serve Hastings County quite well. Especially if VIA were to launch feeder bus services to feed the HFR line. Sharbot Lake, I'm less sure of. It's too far from Kingston to really be useful.

 

[44 North]

They definitely need a stop north of Pickering or thereabouts. An Eastern GTA stop if you will. No stop between Eglinton and Peterborough is nuts.

This is my takeaway as well. Logic would dictate that some kind of station should be built between TO and Peterboro. But where? I guess I'm not really sure what kinds of development are proposed through these lands, but surely some kind of station is warranted over such a long stretch within the GTA. I sorta feel this Via proposal will inevitably be piggy-backed onto GO and Metrolinx's wishful Big Move plans, or vice versa. Maybe behind closed doors it's planned to be. Seaton, Locust Hill, Peterboro, Midtown, all of the above... If we're just focusing on regional plans, there's supposed to be regional service out that way in <15yrs regardless.

 

[smallspy]

old leaside station is owned by Metrolinx. to futureproof the eventual Seaton line.

Is it? I've never seen any reference, inside or outside of Metrolinx, that they'd purchased the land.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Urban Sky]

Is it? I've never seen any reference, inside or outside of Metrolinx, that they'd purchased the land.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

It took me a 5 second Google search ('Leaside station Metrolinx') to find a reference via Wikipedia:

Old and new Leaside Stations

[...] In April of 2009 the property was sold to the province for future GO service.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Toronto/LEASIDE.htm

 

[smallspy]

It took me a 5 second Google search ('Leaside station Metrolinx') to find a reference via Wikipedia:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Toronto/LEASIDE.htm

Mr Kennedy has been shown wrong on other parts of his website before. I would be loathe to cite him as a resource.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[crs1026]

Having once as a starving student made my way to the family cottage for Christmas north of Montreal, by taking the former daily VIA Rail service to Lanoraie (which would presumably be reactivated with this proposal) ... and after being pulled through the Mount Royal tunnel by a WWI-era electric locomotive, arrived at a surprisingly heated, but empty train station, on an RDC so ancient that as far as I recall, the freight portion had a wooden floor, and stood outside the train station with well shovelled trails leading off in the darkness in 2 directions, wondering which one I should try first, to get to a road ...

No. It won't draw people. Though I'm sure the guy with the plowing and heating contract would appreciate it.

Is there anyone else who has actually travelled to any of these flag stops on now-abandoned railway lines that disagrees with me?

(I have no idea why the station as called Lanoraie, as looking at the map, it's a lot closer to St-Thomas.)

You had heat? Ah, the good old days. Don't tell Washago, Strathroy, Grimsby, or Ingersoll ;-)

It's a stretch to think that a stop at Sharbot Lake would ever be all that active, I agree. There is an argument that those who do live along the abandoned right of way.... and may have come to enjoy it in other ways....deserve some accommodation in exchange for having the new line laid across their front lawns. The problem is that no one stop would serve very many.

If you look at how the new line would cut through Sharbot Lake, it's the most likely location to generate NIMBY's (Norwood and Burketon are close seconds. Pontypool? Claremont? Indian River?). Hence the urge to give them a stop. It probably won't cost VIA much timewise because trains will be moving very slowly through that stretch due to curvature and proximity to the town. I wonder how much preliminary consultation there has been with TC about slow orders in "urban" areas. Personally, I'm not advocating for Sharbot Lake - but some political deals will be made, I'm sure.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

I seem to recall that ML's interest in the Leaside property had something to do with a system operations facility, not a station, but that's just my dusty memory and may not be reliable.

In any event, the study for a Peterboro commuter train dated 2010 makes no mention of land available for a Leaside station. I'm sure that if ML had bought the site before that study (the Don Branch was acquired in April 2009, one would think any Leaside purchase would have been part of that) they would have disclosed this to the people doing the study and it would have been considered in their analysis. In fact, the study considered and rejected Leaside as a potential station location. If ML did buy the land before that....... oops.

I have to say, we sure go round in circles debating these things. While no study reflects absolute truth, and things change in seven years, I was surprised to find that many of the issues we have been discussing here were analysed in some detail in that study. It behooves all of us to reread these old studies now and then - there are nuggets of information and facts that we forget and then speculate about all over again.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

You had heat? Ah, the good old days. Don't tell Washago, Strathroy, Grimsby, or Ingersoll ;-)

I confess the heat surprised me - particularly as I got the impression that rarely did anyone get off there, and I wasn't quite sure the road to the station was anything other than walkable. Looked like they'd used a snowblower on it, so no real to go inside, except to get one's bearings. Probably more useful for someone boarding there - but no one did ... and by then, it might have only run a bit further to Trois-Rivieres by then - I seem to recall somewhere near the end, the CN bridge over the Saint-Maurice failed, and rather than fix it, they just cut the Trois-Rivieres to Quebec City portion of the route. It was the only time I went that way - normally taking a bus to Joliette or further north was more convenient. Certainly starting in Montreal, it always made a lot more sense to take the bus; I must have connected from Toronto. Must have been December 1990 or December 1991. Though the Wiki page on the Trois-Rivieres station is correct that service ended in 1990 ... hmm ... now I'm curious, maybe it was early 1990 when I was living in Montreal.

If you look at how the new line would cut through Sharbot Lake, it's the most likely location to generate NIMBY's (Norwood and Blackstock are close seconds. Pontypool? Claremont? Indian River?).

I'd assume there'd be one milk train each way a day, if only for local political reasons. Looking at the 1988 VIA Schedule the stations to Havelock were:

And the 1950 CPR schedule has the Smith Falls to Toronto stops:

And of course, there was the Sharbot Lake to Kingston service - in just over 3 hours.

 

[rbt]

It's a stretch to think that a stop at Sharbot Lake would ever be all that active, I agree. There is an argument that those who do live along the abandoned right of way.... and may have come to enjoy it in other ways....deserve some accommodation in exchange for having the new line laid across their front lawns. The problem is that no one stop would serve very many.

Treat it like Napanee or Gimsby or any other tiny stop. 1 train per day that stops only if a ticket is purchased. No tickets purchased, no stop.

 

[nfitz]

Mr Kennedy has been shown wrong on other parts of his website before. I would be loathe to cite him as a resource.

Are the co-ordinates of the old Leaside station the same as shown on the Wikipedia page? https://www.google.com/maps/place/4...!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d43.704444!4d-79.356111?hl=en

Gosh, is the the 1940s structure? I don't think I've ever even seen pictures of that. I had no idea it was still there.

Looking at the City of Toronto mapping, the land that building is on (if it is the station) is clearly owned by CPR. There's a block that's clearly Hydro. Another is Esso. I don't see how Metrolinx owns anything. That wiki page also says the Havelock service ended in 1982. I'll delete some stuff.

 

[Urban Sky]

Are the co-ordinates of the old Leaside station the same as shown on the Wikipedia page? https://www.google.com/maps/place/43°42'16.0"N+79°21'22.0"W/@43.7037055,-79.3562852,102a,35y,39.47t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d43.704444!4d-79.356111?hl=en

Gosh, is the the 1940s structure? I don't think I've ever even seen pictures of that. I had no idea it was still there.

Looking at the City of Toronto mapping, the land that building is on (if it is the station) is clearly owned by CPR. There's a block that's clearly Hydro. Another is Esso. I don't see how Metrolinx owns anything. That wiki page also says the Havelock service ended in 1982. I'll delete some stuff.

View attachment 115512

For exact station locations, I'd refer to the Ontario Railway Map Collection for Google Earth.

If I read our timetables correctly, service on the Havelock line was first suspended in October 1982 and restored in June 1985, before it was finally cancelled (together with the Montreal - Trois-Rivières - Quebec train mentioned earlier and countless other services nationwide) on January 15, 1990.

 

[nfitz]

For exact station locations, I'd refer to the Ontario Railway Map Collection for Google Earth.

If I read our timetables correctly, service on the Havelock line was first suspended in October 1982 and restored in June 1985, before it was finally cancelled (together with the Montreal - Trois-Rivières - Quebec train mentioned earlier and countless other services nationwide) on January 15, 1990.

Ah yes, I forgot Mulroney actually ran on restoring some cancelled VIA services - before proceeding to massacre them much worse a few years later.

Gosh, I'm not sure I've seen that timetable collection before. "Ours"?

Wonderful, webs.com is blocked for me, for "computer hacking". Sigh ... only got Earth on the work laptop.

Gosh, doesn't this 1977 "VIA" map make you weep: