University Avenue - Toronto's Grand Avenue?

[Ladies Mile]

Central Park is a great urban park mostly because of where it's located, rather than the merits of the park itself.

Central Park is the single greatest work of architecture in New York City. It would be equally brilliant in the middle of a cow field in Saskatoon. Its creation of micro-landscapes, layering of sports & culture facilities and dramatic reveals is unmatched by any park its size or era with the possible exception of Prospect Park in Brooklyn and Mount Royal Park in Montreal, both by the same firm.

High Park is wonderful too, and perhaps much more Torontonian in its backyard-to-forest charms but to think Central Park's admittedly dramatic location is even the first thing is has to offer simply suggests that you have never visited it.

 

[kkgg7]

Toronto has 1500 parks spread out all over the city, so everyone can enjoy parks...

I don't really call many of those 10 sq meter green space "parks". You can hardly do anything in them since it takes less than 1 minute to cross many of them.

You are so biased toward Toronto that everything good or bad is rationalized and sounds just perfect and unmatched. I guess for you the beauty of Toronto beats New York or Paris by leaps and bounds. It just sounds silly to non-natives with no emotional attachment.

 

[Paleo]

I like High Park, but it is no where near a great urban park like Central Park is. It is so far from the city centre basically in the suburb, and it is not beautiful in an elegant way.

If it were in the city centre we would no doubt be hearing your perpetual moaning about how that blasted park is taking up prime real estate that would be better served with development.

It really does seem that many of your posts can be summed up as such:
"Toronto doesn't have a park that competes with the world's greatest park."
"Toronto doesn't have a waterfront that competes with the world's greatest waterfront."
"Toronto doesn't have a grand street that competes with the world's greatest grand street."
"Toronto doesn't have a downtown that competes with the world's greatest downtowns."
"Toronto doesn't have a transit system that competes with the world's greatest transit system."
"Toronto doesn't have a museum that competes with the world's greatest museum."
"Toronto doesn't have street food that competes with the world's greatest street food."
"Toronto doesn't have a market that competes with the world's greatest market."
"Toronto doesn't have...

Only in Canada for the passport...

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I don't really call many of those 10 sq meter green space "parks". You can hardly do anything in them since it takes less than 1 minute to cross many of them.

You are so biased toward Toronto that everything good or bad is rationalized and sounds just perfect and unmatched. I guess for you the beauty of Toronto beats New York or Paris by leaps and bounds. It just sounds silly to non-natives with no emotional attachment.

Next time your in NYC (May through October) go to the top of the Empire State building and look south, east and west - or the top of 30 Rock, it's greatly all concrete except if you look north. Go to the top of the CN tower and look east, west and north - green for as far as the eye can see, with the lake to the south. We don't have a huge, beautiful, rustic park in the middle of town but we're one hell of a beautiful green city with plenty of community parks of all shapes and sizes that serve neighbourhoods throughout town. Emotional attachments are irrelevant, just a good set of eyes are needed.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Central Park is the single greatest work of architecture in New York City. It would be equally brilliant in the middle of a cow field in Saskatoon. Its creation of micro-landscapes, layering of sports & culture facilities and dramatic reveals is unmatched by any park its size or era

That was just a tad too glossy-eyed, and explains why you missed the point. And yes, I've been there.

It just sounds silly to non-natives with no emotional attachment.

With all this construction going on, you'd think someone would have rented a construction crane for the day, to try and lift that giant chip off your shoulder. Your devotion to coming here every day to unleash your negativity is what comes off as silly. And you have an emotional attachment alright...it's just not a positive one obviously.

If you really think I'm being biased, then I suggest checking Toronto's Parks & Rec stats against New York's, and take into consideration the population difference.

 

[thecharioteer]

Given that this is a thread in UT's Urban Design section, let's bring the discussion back to the public realm. The glory of Central Park are its sequences of public spaces which make the pedestrian experience so wonderful. One would be hard-pressed to find the equivalent to the Allee, or the Bethesda Terrace and Fountain in High Park. Comparing the experieinces of entering each park on foot illustrates the difference. I would love to see High Park redesigned one day to focus on the pedestrian experience.

 

[freshcutgrass]

One would be hard-pressed to find the equivalent to the Allee, or the Bethesda Terrace and Fountain in High Park. Comparing the experieinces of entering each park on foot illustrates the difference.

Why would anyone compare the two...apples & oranges.

Central Park needed to be created, because New York didn't have an adequate park, and at the time, a "great city" needed to have a "grand park". But keep in mind, Central Park for most of its life, was a huge liability to New York...it's only recently that it's been rejuvenated...and at great expense.

Toronto was certainly not a "great city" at the time, but we did have our chance...but blew it when we handed over the old waterfront to industry, rather than make it our "grand park".

I would love to see High Park redesigned one day to focus on the pedestrian experience.

Well, if it gets taken over by a not-for-profit agency with hundreds of millions to spend on it...we might. But why would we try to make High Park the equivalent of Central Park? It's not necessary for Toronto to carve out a large part of the gridded urban landscape to create urban playgrounds....Torontonians don't lack green space. And if we want to build impressive recreational statements in our most urban areas, we have plenty of opportunity...we have lakefronts, islands and giant ravine systems, and they have the advantage of already existing without the need to design from scratch.

 

[Ladies Mile]

That was just a tad too glossy-eyed, and explains why you missed the point. And yes, I've been there.

Nothing glossy-eyed about it. It's pretty much common consensus among landscaping and garden historians. And I am no NYC booster--quite the opposite.

See the pics Charioteer posted.

Central Park is fully realized as an urban park. High Park, despite its charms, is not.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Central Park is fully realized as an urban park. High Park, despite its charms, is not.

Is it supposed to be the equivalent of Central Park?

If I were in favour of picking models to draw from (which I'm not), I wouldn't choose Central Park. Considering the local population in the vicinity it needs to service, Central Park is actually inadequate.

I love Central Park...I appreciate its design. But I just don't think Toronto somehow needs to expropriate 800 acres of the downtown core to build a Central Park.

 

[Ladies Mile]

No--simply that the park functions as a continuation of the urban grid itself and packs a dense amount of public features into a relatively small area.

I have yet to see any instance or proof of CP being inadequate for its surroundings. (This would seems to suggest long lines to enter, nowhere to sit, etc.) In fact CP absorbs huge crowds remarkably well.

 

[kkgg7]

Is it supposed to be the equivalent of Central Park?

If I were in favour of picking models to draw from (which I'm not), I wouldn't choose Central Park. Considering the local population in the vicinity it needs to service, Central Park is actually inadequate.

I love Central Park...I appreciate its design. But I just don't think Toronto somehow needs to expropriate 800 acres of the downtown core to build a Central Park.

Your persistent efforts of blindly denying any successful and superiod planning in other cities is almost admirable. In sum, whatever good things other cities have, Toronto simply doesn't "need" it. I came to realize this is exactly why Toronto is what Toronto is like at present.
Honestly, admitting someone else did something far better won't kill you.

 

[kkgg7]

Next time your in NYC (May through October) go to the top of the Empire State building and look south, east and west - or the top of 30 Rock, it's greatly all concrete except if you look north. Go to the top of the CN tower and look east, west and north - green for as far as the eye can see, with the lake to the south. We don't have a huge, beautiful, rustic park in the middle of town but we're one hell of a beautiful green city with plenty of community parks of all shapes and sizes that serve neighbourhoods throughout town. Emotional attachments are irrelevant, just a good set of eyes are needed.

Go to any small city or suburban area, you see green everywhere as well.
Green space in the sparse suburbs like Etobicoke means nothing, except that that area is not developed yet. It is the trees and parks in the city core that matters. Walk along major streets in Toronto, Yonge, Bloor, Queen, Dundas, Bay etc, there are very few bigs tree, and there are very few decent sized parks (not those mini "parkette" which is almost useless except for the purpose of counting as "one park" in statistics).
I don't care about the suburbs no matter how green it is. I don't really go there. It is the city itself that matters.

 

[fouronesix]

Your persistent efforts of blindly denying any successful and superiod planning in other cities is almost admirable. In sum, whatever good things other cities have, Toronto simply doesn't "need" it. I came to realize this is exactly why Toronto is what Toronto is like at present.
Honestly, admitting someone else did something far better won't kill you.

Sure there are lot's of other cities with better things than Toronto, nevertheless, there are lots of things that Toronto does well.

In every thread you comment on it seems like you're either reminding people that Toronto isn't as great as somewhere else or your admonishing people for having the audacity to think that Toronto is good at something.

From some of your posts I get the sense that you're not from Toronto. If this is so, why did you choose to move here? What is it that attracted you to Toronto rather than some other, better city?

 

[Paleo]

From some of your posts I get the sense that you're not from Toronto. If this is so, why did you choose to move here? What is it that attracted you to Toronto rather than some other, better city?

I will finally get my Canadian passport in a few weeks, and I have no idea what that means to me, and I don't feel any excitement or pride, and I believe many new Canadians feel the same. The only reason I applied was for the benefit ot travelling to many countries without visa requirements, and I do like travelling.

Does that answer things?

 

[Register123]

Looking at both cities (NYC and Toronto) respective parks websites, it appeares NYC has toronto beat at 14% of land in NYC is parkland and 12% in Toronto. NYC has a number of very large parks and beach areas.