TTC: Streetcar Network

[steveintoronto]

That's just what I was thinking. I thought that had died when they selected the Canada Line alignment.

I was conflicted, even though not a Vancouverite, on using it for heavier rail. It has become a 'green corridor', and as much as its history is steeped in being an interurban, it would be a shame/crime to take the corridor back from pedestrians and cyclists. Light rail is an excellent compromise, since it allows shared use with minimum restriction, and yet provides much better transit to the corridor, and with crucial connections, as you point out.

This just might end-up being LRT at its best...

 

[muller877]

I was conflicted, even though not a Vancouverite, on using it for heavier rail. It has become a 'green corridor', and as much as its history is steeped in being an interurban, it would be a shame/crime to take the corridor back from pedestrians and cyclists. Light rail is an excellent compromise, since it allows shared use with minimum restriction, and yet provides much better transit to the corridor, and with crucial connections, as you point out.

This just might end-up being LRT at its best...

The False Creek U lines are a great idea. The area is booming (culturally, commercial and residential). I can see it busy during the week for residents and bustling with tourists on the weekend.

The Arbutus is questionable. Running 2.5 km from another transit line that isn't full. Doesn't seem like the best ROI.

Plus not prioritizing a line to UBC. the whole plan feels like lines on a map pandering to a politicians base (way too familiar with how things work in Toronto)

 

[DSC]

Is the TTC moving to Vancouver? Back to TO.....

 

[jje1000]

If Toronto is intent on keeping its streetcars, it needs to make them more efficient via stop eliminations, lane restrictions and transit priority lights- or else we'll keep on having this conversation forever.

Buses vs. streetcars: The debate continues

This summer, the 501 streetcars on Queen Street were replaced by buses during construction. CityNews heard from multiple commuters saying the bus was much faster.

Councillor Ford’s motion to conduct a study on whether buses or streetcars are more efficient on Queen Street was rejected by City Council this fall. It was considered redundant as streetcars were already back on that route in September.

However when it comes to volume, articulated accordion style buses move the same amount of people as a regular streetcar. Transit expert Murtaza Haider is calling on the city to let an independent body dissect the data to see which mode of transit is more efficient – though he says you don’t have to be an engineer to figure out which one keeps traffic moving quicker.

For his part, Councillor Ford says even though his motion was dropped, its a fight he’s looking at revisiting.

http://toronto.citynews.ca/2017/11/06/buses-vs-streetcars-debate-continues/

 

[nfitz]

The Arbutus is questionable. Running 2.5 km from another transit line that isn't full.

Isn't full? There were reports it was reaching the current capacity over 3 years ago - http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/08/...-skytrain-canada-line-built-nearing-capacity/

Plus not prioritizing a line to UBC. the whole plan feels like lines on a map pandering to a politicians base (way too familiar with how things work in Toronto)

No reason they can't do both. There's not much work to extend the existing streetcar alignment to Arbutus, and the section to Gas Town is relatively short. I think one of the assumptions in this line, is the next phase of the Skytrain to Arbutus is also built.

Is the TTC moving to Vancouver? Back to TO.....

I don't think a minor diversion to the only other route to have run Flexity Outlook equipment in North America is out of order.

 

[steveintoronto]

If Toronto is intent on keeping its streetcars, it needs to make them more efficient via stop eliminations, lane restrictions and transit priority lights- or else we'll keep on having this conversation forever.
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2017/11/06/buses-vs-streetcars-debate-continues/

Agreed. That was a pretty shoddy CITY TV piece. And frankly, Michael Ford is even more challenged than I first thought, but here's an authority who makes an excellent analytical case, and his preliminary conclusions is:

[...]
Overall, the areas where traffic is fairly free-flowing and periods when passenger service times are not too long show the buses coming out better than the streetcars. However, where the street is likely to be congested or when passenger demand is heavy, buses lose their advantage.

Another possible factor, and this from personal observation riding buses on Queen, is that bus operators are generally used to driving at faster speeds and will take advantage of whatever openings there might be in traffic. Streetcar operators are less aggressive, leaving aside issues such as being trapped behind left-turning vehicles. Depending on the degree of overall congestion, turns can also affect buses in locations where general congestion prevents vehicles of either type from advancing in any available lane.

I will return to a more detailed review at the level of individual days later in this article.
[...]

https://stevemunro.ca/2017/06/08/comparison-of-streetcar-and-bus-operations-on-501-queen/

Not quite the claim of Messrs Haider et Ford.

 

[reaperexpress]

However when it comes to volume, articulated accordion style buses move the same amount of people as a regular streetcar.

Umm... The scheduled capacity of an articulated bus is 77 people. The scheduled capacity of a Flexity is 130 people. (Source). Streetcar to bus is literally a 2:1 ratio even with articulated buses.

And good luck running an articulated bus on Queen anyway. You'd need to get rid of a lot of parking around the stops to make enough room for the bus to pull in to the curb and align the back doors. Today there's a 30-metre no-standing zone at stops (length of a Flexity streetcar). An articulated bus would need 50 metres (30m to pull in, 20m for the bus length). In a downtown environment a 40-foot bus would be more realistic, carrying 50 people (barely over 1/3 of a streetcar).

Sure, a CLRV is the same capacity as an articulated bus, but how is that relevant to anything? The smallest streetcar we have carries the same number as the biggest bus we have? No, clearly this statement was intended to be misinterpreted to mean that streetcars carry the same number of people as buses.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I think that Steve Munro is a better "expert" than Murtaza Haider.

Murtaza seems to be reminiscent of the old 1940's or 1950's "experts" used by the bus manufacturers. See link.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Here's a new routing for a TTC streetcar: Glendale to Burbank!

Spotted this in Curbed L.A.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Note of observation from Saturday on the 510 at Spadina and Queens Quay. There were two 510 cars that met at the intersection, the Union-bound car made the turn into Queens Quay while the Spadina-bound car waited until it had travelled through the junction completely wasting a full transit priority cycle. How ironic that we complain about slow streetcar operations and lack of transit priority when it's also partly the TTC's fault for implementing moronic decisions due to the lack of confidence in their track technology/infrastructure and operations. I know that this doesn't apply to every single car as I've seen veteran operators complete the junction as it was meant to be (not crawling either).

Something else that is noticeable is that operators on Spadina tend to be new or inexperienced while experienced employees are more likely found on the transverse routes.

 

[BMO]

Note of observation from Saturday on the 510 at Spadina and Queens Quay. There were two 510 cars that met at the intersection, the Union-bound car made the turn into Queens Quay while the Spadina-bound car waited until it had travelled through the junction completely wasting a full transit priority cycle. How ironic that we complain about slow streetcar operations and lack of transit priority when it's also partly the TTC's fault for implementing moronic decisions due to the lack of confidence in their track technology/infrastructure and operations. I know that this doesn't apply to every single car as I've seen veteran operators complete the junction as it was meant to be (not crawling either).

Something else that is noticeable is that operators on Spadina tend to be new or inexperienced while experienced employees are more likely found on the transverse routes.

you're preaching to the choir. If streetcars didn't need to literally wait an entire light cycle because they have to stop and check the switches, and can't cross at the same time as another train crosses the intersection, they'd be much faster than they currently are. Sometimes you'll see them just chilling at a green for 30 seconds doing nothing.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I have seen lots of times it operate both ways with Streetcars waiting at the switch or both going at the same time it all depends on if a 509 car had gone by first. It may also have to do with them worrying about the car dewiring and hitting the other cars troly pole when it's lose as the they tend to fly aroud alot fatr with the new cars then with the old ones.

 

[Amare]

Just another example of the TTC crippling streetcar service in the city. It seems as though the more time passes by, the greater the amount of ridiculous policies the TTC institutes on streetcar lines.

 

[micheal_can]

Just another example of the TTC crippling streetcar service in the city. It seems as though the more time passes by, the greater the amount of ridiculous policies the TTC institutes on streetcar lines.

It is almost as though they want it to fail.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Why hasn't someone brought these issues up in City Council? It's not going to get fixed if the regular commuter doesn't know about it.