TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The point is that once you have full-length PSDs, you would only be air-conditioning the station areas and not the tunnels/outside, so air conditioning would be feasible.

It maybe difficult - I don't recall seeing many cases of ventilation systems within the station proper - whatever vents there are seems to be part of the tunnel itself. Some of the stations also have little plenum space.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

It maybe difficult - I don't recall seeing many cases of ventilation systems within the station proper - whatever vents there are seems to be part of the tunnel itself. Some of the stations also have little plenum space.

AoD

Most of the older stations have a vent shaft in the tunnel, immediately adjacent to the station, they rely on this, and the tunnels, and in some cases additional airflow (ie. Queen Street uses the former exit on the North-East corner as a vent).

There is little built-in ventilation in most of these stations.

That said, on Line 2, and the northern portions of Line 1, there is ample room w/station boxes, in most cases, to accommodate such a system, and vents mounted on the top of a PED system could be used to distribute flow at the platform level.

The original line one stations would be more challenging to fit out due to a much smaller box and lower ceiling heights as well in many cases.

If adjacent vent shafts have sufficient capacity, including meeting their existing obligations, it might possible to fit a/c units inside these, and then pump in, along the top of PEDs again, but I'm not clear that that is feasible w/o expensive expansion/alteration.

I do, however, think it really is an important investment over time. Overcrowding can occur any time, even w/an RL due to large events or delays, with overcrowding and overheating you run the risk of medical emergencies, taking both the toll on the people and the system.

Climate change models indicate we will see more extreme heat in the future and moderately warmer days throughout the typical summer.

We should be proactive, rather than reactive.

That's not to say there aren't higher near-term priorities, but the problem in saying as much is that that will likely always seem true, until something goes terribly wrong.

 

[Neutrino]

2. Platform screen doors? Sorry, but saving money is more important than saving lives. So say the fiscal conservatives.

lol. As @Northern Light mentioned, liberal governments haven't delivered any of this either.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Remember back in 2013?

Door slammed on subway platform barriers

From link.

Councillors voted to do nothing with a request for subway platform safety barriers Friday.

Councillor Anthony Perruzza had asked council to request the TTC to install platform edge doors or “suicide barriers” at all the new subway stations along the Spadina subway extension and any future subway stations.

Perruzza also wanted the TTC to develop a plan to retroactively install subway doors at existing subway stations and review all existing safety measures to keep people from being injured or falling onto the subway tracks.

Council ended up voting to receive the request for information — the legislative equivalent of doing nothing with it.

Before the vote, city manager Joe Pennachetti warned councillors there is no funding for the barriers.

“This would cost hundreds of millions of dollars,” Pennachetti said.

In his motion, Perruzza argued the barriers would save lives and the item was urgent because the Spadina extension construction was underway and the doors could be installed as part of the construction.

“The Toronto Transit Commission estimates there are 20 suicide attempts on subway platforms each year,” Perruzza stated. “In April 2013 alone, two individuals on separate events lost their balance and fell on the tracks due to medical emergencies.

“An uncounted number of individuals end up on subway tracks each year as a result of mischief, the influence of alcohol/drugs, medical emergencies when standing too close and individuals attempting to rescue others. The installation of subway platform edge doors would prevent the public from accessing the subway track and will save lives.”

The TTC estimates installing the barriers would cost $5 million to $10 million per station but also requires automatic train control for the doors to operate properly. TTC spokesman Brad Ross admitted platform edge doors “do of course prevent suicides” but the TTC can’t afford them right now.

“It absolutely would prevent suicides, it would also improve system reliability,” he said.

“Platform edge doors are what we call below the line — they’re unfunded.”

Ross said the Toronto-York Spadina subway extension project will have the infrastructure for the doors installed in the stations so they could be installed once funding is available.

The Toronto-York Spadina subway extension could have been with platform screen doors. But no.

Now they're asking for platform screen doors on the proposed Relief Line. Is there a lottery for platform screen doors somewhere in the world?

 

[JSF-1]

If the TTC and Toronto were serious about Platform doors and actually could afford it why not go with half-height doors? For the older sections of the system (line 1 and 2) which were built with smaller stations and lower ceilings half-heights would be a much better option as the impede access to track level while still permitting airflow through the platform level. As well while it may seem like a small thing there is a definite "aesthetic" to the use of platform doors. Small stations with low ceilings (like the majority of the Subway here) would feel far more claustrophobic and just more oppressive (does anyone remember the picture of Rosedale with full-height doors). There is a trend when looking around the world for platform doors and the design of the stations they tend to appear in.

To me converting a pre-exisitng line to full height is just not worth it since the stations were never designed for such a thing. Things such as air ventilation systems would need to be installed and I am sure this is where the bulk of the $1 Billion cost comes from. For a pre-existing line half-heights are the options while for a completely brand new line (the DRL) you can use full-heights because the stations would be designed with them in mind.

 

[steveintoronto]

If the TTC and Toronto were serious about Platform doors and actually could afford it why not go with half-height doors? For the older sections of the system (line 1 and 2) which were built with smaller stations and lower ceilings half-heights would be a much better option as the impede access to track level while still permitting airflow through the platform level. As well while it may seem like a small thing there is a definite "aesthetic" to the use of platform doors. Small stations with low ceilings (like the majority of the Subway here) would feel far more claustrophobic and just more oppressive (does anyone remember the picture of Rosedale with full-height doors). There is a trend when looking around the world for platform doors and the design of the stations they tend to appear in.

To me converting a pre-exisitng line to full height is just not worth it since the stations were never designed for such a thing. Things such as air ventilation systems would need to be installed and I am sure this is where the bulk of the $1 Billion cost comes from. For a pre-existing line half-heights are the options while for a completely brand new line (the DRL) you can use full-heights because the stations would be designed with them in mind.
View attachment 147435

The doors themselves could be porous or if plexiglass, be perforated with holes. They could even be stiff mesh.

 

[Steve X]

Actually a lot of track fires are caused by garbage ending up on the third rail. PSDs will reduce a lot of those problems. TTC should stop talking about PSDs as sometime to prevent suicides as people will argue that they should spend the money in mental health instead but as a way to reduce delays and increase reliability.

 

[W. K. Lis]

See thread (link) created back in 2006 on
TTC: Automatic Train Control and Subway Platform Screen Doors

 

[crs1026]

Ventilation issues? We aren’t world class - yet!

Why are London’s tube tunnels so hot ?

- Paul

 

[rbt]

To me converting a pre-exisitng line to full height is just not worth it since the stations were never designed for such a thing. Things such as air ventilation systems would need to be installed and I am sure this is where the bulk of the $1 Billion cost comes from.

Actually, air ventilation is an extra and some form would be required for half-height doors too. Older sections were built with the assumption that station stairwells would help vent smoke. While already a poor mechanism, even a small obstruction causes issues with that concept.

Finch ventilation was upgraded in 2010 as an trial; it ended up costing much more than expected. Ventilation upgrades are a $1.5B project system wide.

Keep in mind when considering reconstruction timelines/pricing that some TTC platforms contain spray insulation containing asbestos (found in Sheppard station platform during construction of Sheppard line). Taking out of a bit of the platform edge to strengthen it for the weight and to ensure the doors remain stationary (high pressure/low pressure will not shift them) can be far more involved then you might hope; and you may not know if a platform has asbestos until it's open and tested.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Actually a lot of track fires are caused by garbage ending up on the third rail. PSDs will reduce a lot of those problems. TTC should stop talking about PSDs as sometime to prevent suicides as people will argue that they should spend the money in mental health instead but as a way to reduce delays and increase reliability.

This - they are framing it as a "suicide prevention" matter - no; this is first and foremost a service reliability issue.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Actually a lot of track fires are caused by garbage ending up on the third rail. PSDs will reduce a lot of those problems. TTC should stop talking about PSDs as sometime to prevent suicides as people will argue that they should spend the money in mental health instead but as a way to reduce delays and increase reliability.

Also increasing train travel efficiency, as the trains can enter stations at higher speeds, which effectively decreases travel time between stops.

 

[nfitz]

Also increasing train travel efficiency, as the trains can enter stations at higher speeds, which effectively decreases travel time between stops.

I'm not aware of what stops the trains currently entering the stations now at top speed, other than the desire to stop before the platform runs out.

 

[steveintoronto]

I'm not aware of what stops the trains currently entering the stations now at top speed, other than the desire to stop before the platform runs out.

[...]
In 2010, the TTC board approved in principle the installation so-called platform edge doors on Line 1 (Yonge-University-Spadina), but the project has never been funded.

Mihevc and other proponents of the barriers argue they would not only eliminate suicides on the subway, but also prevent lengthy service delays caused by trespassers entering tunnels or debris falling on the track.

The barriers could also make service more efficient by allowing trains to enter crowded stations at full speed, instead of slowing down for safety reasons.

Even at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars, achieving all of those goals with a single project “is actually pretty cheap,” Mihevc argued.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ls-for-ttc-to-install-platforms-barriers.html

It's accepted as being the case in a number of subway and rail systems using barriers on platform edges.

 

[JSF-1]

I would like to see the next trains adopt what the MPM-10's in Montreal have. The amount of information you cram on the screen would be a wonderful thing. In Montreal those screens for example show information such as the next stop, what bus routes stop at the next station and in emergencies or delays you can display information there. As well the TTC is growing and we will begin to run out of real estate on the current horizontal maps we use so I think its inevitable will move to a combination of vertical maps which show the whole subway and line specific maps for that line your on (like in New York).

As well I would like to see those Door Buttons you see on the streetcars and like they have in Berlin. During peak periods and at busy stations the driver can operate the doors, but at lesser used stations and during low usage times (i.e. late night) passengers can do it themselves. It also makes sense since we are moving to OPTO. As well it should actually have some operational benefits like speeding up late night service and making AC/Heat systems more efficient due to the reduced loss in Cool/hot air when the doors are open.