TTC: New Fare Gate Installation

[Leo_Chan]

How are everyday passengers supposed to know that? They see a sign saying closed until Jan 9 at 6pm, they don't know another crew is coming with some other sign.

In any case the sign is still up in parts of the station....View attachment 95748

I'm not saying that putting up new signs for every crew is normal. I'm just saying what is probably happening with the process of construction. It is better to put up the mid-february sign up right from the beginning.

 

[crs1026]

Buried in this report is some recent statistical data on fare inspection and fare evasion rates:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2017/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-99748.pdf

- Paul

 

[dowlingm]

TTC November Presto payment transactions were 3.39m vs target 1.31. This upsurge is becoming a problem at King (Scotia Plaza) in the afternoon because

1. King (Commerce Court) has no Presto gate so anyone wishing to use Presto must use K-SP.
2. Presto users can't use the bypass gate or the fare collector turnstiles as token/metropass users can, and at least one Presto turnstile out of the four was OOS when I passed through this week.

Accordingly, queue lengths for the remaining working turnstiles are becoming annoying.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

TTC November Presto payment transactions were 3.39m vs target 1.31. This upsurge is becoming a problem at King (Scotia Plaza) in the afternoon because

1. King (Commerce Court) has no Presto gate so anyone wishing to use Presto must use K-SP.
2. Presto users can't use the bypass gate or the fare collector turnstiles as token/metropass users can, and at least one Presto turnstile out of the four was OOS when I passed through this week.

Accordingly, queue lengths for the remaining working turnstiles are becoming annoying.

That's what happen when the rationale is ensure "100% system coverage"** by an arbitrary deadline over maximizing user experience for the majority of riders.

**prequisite ifs, ands, or buts.

I am sure somewhere at TTC/Metrolinx, the QPI of project completion on time will be checked out and Victory over Iraq will be declared.

AoD

 

[DSC]

That's what happen when the rationale is ensure "100% system coverage"** by an arbitrary deadline over maximizing user experience for the majority of riders.

**prequisite ifs, ands, or buts.

I am sure somewhere at TTC/Metrolinx, the QI of project completion on time will be checked out and Victory over Iraq will be declared.

AoD

You may not agree with the TTC`s reasoning (which seems good to me) but it was to get PRESTO out there ASAP even if initially it was not available at 100% in all stations and if the first few stations to get PRESTO had it attached to the turnstiles. If they had installed 100% station by station and only done so at the same time as installing all new gates I bet that you and many others (including me) would have complained. Installing PRESTO in old stations is generally not easy as they need to bring power and communications wiring and installing new gates usually seems to mean they need to refinish the floors. The latest CEO Report says:

The next key milestones are to complete the remaining station entrances, to retrofit the initial 26 stations with new faregates and to progressively migrate customers onto PRESTO. This will be achieved by the installation of self-service machines in stations and in sales outlets, by migrating existing TTC products such as Metropass onto PRESTO.

Yes, it has not gone perfectly but most of the problems seem to be PRESTO ones and this is controlled by Metrolinx - and yes, I agree that the TTC probably made the task far harder by refusing to go to timed transfers and insisting that PRESTO worked the same way as their idiosyncratic manual system but the PRESTO folk should simply have said `no`.

 

[JamesKoole]

Dufferin will face similar problems to King. It's a transfer station and a bus or two regularly dump large numbers of passengers into the station who will all need to Presto through the gates. The past practice of using the crash gate will be gone as waving a transfer or a Metropass in the air won't be an option when it's 100% Presto. Presto usage is growing and the addition of the fare gates really enhances the visibility of Presto and (I think) is encouraging token users to make the switch.

 

[mdrejhon]

TTC November Presto payment transactions were 3.39m vs target 1.31. This upsurge is becoming a problem at King (Scotia Plaza) in the afternoon

Presto usage becoming almost 3x higher than expected on TTC?

I'd have thought TTC delays in Presto rollout means usage would result in lower usage than projections, not higher. I learn something new today.

Bodes well for Presto, but TTC needs to step up the game, and Metrolinx needs to fix those reliability issues, too. It's a great system whenever it works well, as GO users attest.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Presto usage becoming almost 3x higher than expected on TTC?

I'd have thought TTC delays in Presto rollout means usage would result in lower usage than projections, not higher. I learn something new today.

Bodes well for Presto, but TTC needs to step up the game, and Metrolinx needs to fix those reliability issues, too. It's a great system whenever it works well, as GO users attest.

A projection being this off is also concerning.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

TTC November Presto payment transactions were 3.39m vs target 1.31.

I think you've mis-read the report. The target wasn't 1.31. 2015 was 1.31. There was no target set.

 

[DSC]

.

From CEO Report, January 2017 meeting, p 21.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Interesting I wonder if the higher Presto card use has to do with the number of poel who use other transit to get into the city. Like for example everyone that uses Go on a regular bases probably also uses a presto card. It's been mentioned her that Hamilton has really low presto use rate my guess would be because most poel that use Transit in Hamilton don't use it to leave Hamilton and end up in Toronto. Where as peo, whop use YRT and VIVA use it to head in to Toronto as with Go Transit.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

To be honest I think a lot more people move to Presto without having to be pushed. So many cities already have a similar system. I'm sure people have seen smartcards in use either in other cities or just with people who already have Presto, and it's advertised all over the system as well.

I wonder what happened in August/September to trigger that inflection point - it was a slow and steady rise up till then and all of a sudden, boom. Students? Some critical mass of terminal installations? Adverts?

You also had that jump from Dec 2015 to Jan 2016

AoD

 

[TransitBart]

I wonder what happened in August/September to trigger that inflection point - it was a slow and steady rise up till then and all of a sudden, boom. Students? Some critical mass of terminal installations? Adverts?

You also had that jump from Dec 2015 to Jan 2016,

AoD

How about the fare gates? Many people - even here - confuse fare gates and PRESTO although they are separate systems. Some (puny) number of stations had PRESTO before the fare gates, but the rollout was underwhelming.

Streetcars had PRESTO beginning whenever, but you could avoid it entirely if you were going downtown on the subway.

Buses not at all until the Queensway Garage started converting.

Then at the beginning of the Fall of 2016, fare gates began to appear and the vast majority of them have only one way to get in PRESTO. A very few are configured for Metropass swipe. No place to put a token. No place to put cash.

Now you have to get on board or line up at the ticket taker wicket. Simpler (and faster) to switch to a PRESTO card if you are a non-Metropass user, and not too old to be locked into your ways.

 

[DSC]

How about the fare gates? Many people - even here - confuse fare gates and PRESTO although they are separate systems. Some (puny) number of stations had PRESTO before the fare gates, but the rollout was underwhelming.

Streetcars had PRESTO beginning whenever, but you could avoid it entirely if you were going downtown on the subway.

Buses not at all until the Queensway Garage started converting.

Then at the beginning of the Fall of 2016, fare gates began to appear and the vast majority of them have only one way to get in PRESTO. A very few are configured for Metropass swipe. No place to put a token. No place to put cash.

Now you have to get on board or line up at the ticket taker wicket. Simpler (and faster) to switch to a PRESTO card if you are a non-Metropass user, and not too old to be locked into your ways.

Yes, though PRESTO is certainly not perfect it is actually FAR easier to deal with than remembering to buy tokens/tickets and if you set it up for automatic loading it really makes life FAR easier. Now that PRESTO is (maybe only theoretically!!) available 'everywhere I have no need for PRESTO plus ticket/token and just use PRESTO. Of course it is going to be used more!

 

[cplchanb]

Typical late season push.... They

I wonder what happened in August/September to trigger that inflection point - it was a slow and steady rise up till then and all of a sudden, boom. Students? Some critical mass of terminal installations? Adverts?

You also had that jump from Dec 2015 to Jan 2016

AoD

Typical late season push....they realized by mid year that they are really far behind and they just threw in everything to meet their targets. Hence the above avg failures and glitches that still haven't been sorted out. Kinda reminds me of a certain company in northern Ontario that are producing a large number of a certain piece of equipment for a certain city that did the same thing last November just to get that check mark. Now that the new years here I wonder if they will sort their schedule out or if they're going to overrelax and suddenly realize they f_cked up in August