TTC: New Fare Gate Installation

[junctionist]

That's why they banned eating on the trains.

 

[amnesiajune]

The TTC has tried to ban food as well, but since some people's medical conditions require them to have food (diabetics in particular) they don't do it. Any food ban would get struck down under anti-discrimination laws.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The TTC has tried to ban food as well, but since some people's medical conditions require them to have food (diabetics in particular) they don't do it. Any food ban would get struck down under anti-discrimination laws.

TTC couldn't even be bothered to make sure people don't have their feet up their seats, I am not convinced they are in any position to enforce any eating ban.

As to it being a human rights issue for diabetics - I can't wait to hear how the violators justify eating a bag of chips, cookies, a full course meal - bones and all - and throwing it all on the ground has anything to do with the disease (and how Toronto apparently is the only place with diabetes).

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

As to it being a human rights issue for diabetics - I can't wait to hear how the violators justify eating a bag of chips, cookies, a full course meal - bones and all - and throwing it all on the ground has anything to do with the disease (and how Toronto apparently is the only place with diabetes).

News flash... Ontario's laws don't apply in Washington DC. Anyways, the TTC can ban food, they just can't enforce that ban for anyone who says that they have some medical condition that might require eating food.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

News flash... Ontario's laws don't apply in Washington DC. Anyways, the TTC can ban food, they just can't enforce that ban for anyone who says that they have some medical condition that might require eating food.

Doctor's note. A medical condition isn't self-identified.

AoD

 

[Megaton327]

Doctor's note. A medical condition isn't self-identified.

AoD

The Human Rights Code includes stipulations regarding the reasonability of the process of providing accommodations. I doubt a judge would agree with the TTC that a diabetic should be expected to carry several doctor's notes everywhere at all times so that they can give a copy to anyone who asks--and I doubt the TTC would train their frontline staff, i.e. operators/guards/collectors, to evaluate medical documents and make decisions about Human Rights Code accommodations on the spot, they'd probably need a supervisor to come in and check it, which would be an unreasonably long wait for a potentially life-threatening condition. Additionally, the Human Rights Commission/Tribunal have recently started taking a hard stance towards requests to see medical proof of disabilities due to privacy reasons, in many cases it has been found that requiring a medical note can be discriminatory and unreasonable, and--again, in some cases--people should simply be taken at their word where the request for accommodation is not unreasonable, which I'm sure would apply to eating on the subway.

For comparison, I've heard from a few people who work in retail stores with 'no pets' policies--whenever someone comes in with a pet, they have been explicitly ordered by management to say nothing and do nothing or they'll be fired on the spot, because the management is concerned about getting sued for discrimination if it is a guide dog--even the question "is that a guide dog?" can, apparently, cause issues--or, at least, there is enough concern that it can that people avoid even that much.

In the end, I'm certain that the TTC is smart enough not to want to get into trouble with it, and just don't have the rule at all.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The Human Rights Code includes stipulations regarding the reasonability of the process of providing accommodations. I doubt a judge would agree with the TTC that a diabetic should be expected to carry several doctor's notes everywhere at all times so that they can give a copy to anyone who asks--and I doubt the TTC would train their frontline staff, i.e. operators/guards/collectors, to evaluate medical documents and make decisions about Human Rights Code accommodations on the spot, they'd probably need a supervisor to come in and check it, which would be an unreasonably long wait for a potentially life-threatening condition. Additionally, the Human Rights Commission/Tribunal have recently started taking a hard stance towards requests to see medical proof of disabilities due to privacy reasons, in many cases it has been found that requiring a medical note can be discriminatory and unreasonable, and--again, in some cases--people should simply be taken at their word where the request for accommodation is not unreasonable, which I'm sure would apply to eating on the subway.

For comparison, I've heard from a few people who work in retail stores with 'no pets' policies--whenever someone comes in with a pet, they have been explicitly ordered by management to say nothing and do nothing or they'll be fired on the spot, because the management is concerned about getting sued for discrimination if it is a guide dog--even the question "is that a guide dog?" can, apparently, cause issues--or, at least, there is enough concern that it can that people avoid even that much.

In the end, I'm certain that the TTC is smart enough not to want to get into trouble with it, and just don't have the rule at all.

Har har, the same TTC that ignored the human rights issue that is station announcement for decades? I can't wait to see some killjoy bring it to OHRC. At issue isn't the exceptions - which can always be made (and should be made), but the blanket enablement of errant behaviour because of fears over the exception. That I have an issue with.

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

The same TTC that ignored the human rights issue that is station announcement for decades?

The OHRC doesn't deal with accessibility. They deal with discrimination. One is ensuring that new services are designed to be accessible and old services are upgraded to become accessible, which AODA deals with. The other is intentionally creating policies that make your service inaccessible, which Human Rights laws deal with.

I can't wait to see some killjoy bring it to OHRC.

The TTC already did that!! That's why there's no food ban - the OHRC's predecessor struck it down as discriminatory, and the TTC decided that it wasn't worth banning food if anyone could just claim some medical reason for why they needed to eat.

 

[mdrejhon]

Any newly opened anything has teething problems. Bad parts, faulty switches, shorts, etc.. Eventually, they'll work. That's why the TTC is delaying the official switch away from tokens until most parts are actually working as specified.

Until the fiscal conservatives come on the scene that is and hold back the needed money for maintenance and refurbishment, as you mentioned with the Washington Metro (and the underfunded TTC as well).

While TTC has crises (especially pre-Andy Byford), it is currently far worse in Washington DC now -- It's really bad now and now a modern textbook case study of a subway falling apart.
-- Washington Metro 40 and Creaking, Stairs at a Midlife Crisis
-- Washington Metro Getting Ready for Bankruptcy?
etc.

(google actually makes TTC looks amazing in comparision)

In 2015, the Washington Metro (a subway! a subway!) were, combined, worse than Toronto's GO Transit disruptions! More total hours of closures, full-day network-wide closures, instances of waiting for hours on stuck trains, etc.

TTC? Hah... Especially now under Andy and the new open-gangway trains, TTC is a beacon of reliability, relatively speaking.

We may complain a lot, but we don't realize how good we have it now -- even pre-Andy Byford the TTC was relatively good compared to today's Washington Metro problems. More deaths from multiple train disasters & more delays has occured on Washington Metro.

It is still not perfect, and it needs improvement, but TTC is luckier than Washington DC at the moment. They seem to finally be scrambling to catch up and may have their moments.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The OHRC doesn't deal with accessibility. They deal with discrimination. One is ensuring that new services are designed to be accessible and old services are upgraded to become accessible, which AODA deals with. The other is intentionally creating policies that make your service inaccessible, which Human Rights laws deal with.

Actually -

https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/08/06/human_rights_ruling_set_to_change_sound_of_transit.html

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/next-stop-...und-accessible-transit-and-stop-announcements

The TTC already did that!! That's why there's no food ban - the OHRC's predecessor struck it down as discriminatory, and the TTC decided that it wasn't worth banning food if anyone could just claim some medical reason for why they needed to eat.

Their choice not to be as restrictive as possible. It's tantamount to throwing one's hands up and have a free for all, sort of the default when it comes to these things, I find.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

While TTC has crises (especially pre-Andy Byford), it is currently far worse in Washington DC now -- It's really bad now and now a modern textbook case study of a subway falling apart.

It sounded more like (but even more serious) than the period immediately after Russell Hill. For all the ills, TTC does take SOGR seriously now. But before we feel too good about it, keep in mind, quoted from the NYT article:

But Robert Puentes, the incoming president of the Eno Center for Transportation, who wrote a 2004 paper on Metro, says the system’s problems also stem from a singular reality written into it from the outset: It is an “institutional orphan” with no single mayor or legislature in charge. Metro, he said, is the only mass transit system of its size without a permanent source of funding, like a tax on businesses near stations. It relies solely on allocations from its three jurisdictions and on its own fares for operations.

We aren't THAT different.

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

Not all credit card machine actually work when you try a "tap-n-go".

Some machines still have to get you to sign a piece of paper.

 

[mrgrieves]

So at the Wilson Station entrance from the main parking lot they are removing the old turnstiles which accept tokens or Metropass and replacing with the new Presto fare gates.


Signs were up for a few weeks saying the entrance would be closed from January 6 to January 9 at 6pm to do the work. I was surprised how short this work would take and also how precise the end time was. But then figured the TTC has done this exact thing across the network so at this point maybe they’ve mastered it.


I was wrong. Today a new sign was up. The work would be completed in “mid-February”. What a joke…

 

[mdrejhon]

But before we feel too good about it, keep in mind, quoted from the NYT article:

That's certainly a cautionary tale.

That said, I read further and was a little aghast. With TTC's terrible culture pre-Andy Byford, doesn't even hold a candle to the inept Washington Metro's group (good employees nonwithstanding, of course), that they even left offered hundreds of millions unspent, not being able to efficiently manage & triage money, even to long-term maintenance and safety improvements.

Leaving money on the table (IIRC, $1.5bn cumilative! article) a lot more than TTC has done.

We better not slide back to the Dark Ages, but from what I know now, I now think (in many respects, even if maybe not all) the worst TTC culture didn't even reach Washington Metro's level. I didn't believe that at first... but.... ouch.

 

[rbt]

I was wrong. Today a new sign was up. The work would be completed in “mid-February”. What a joke…

I'd put money on them running into asbestos in places they wanted to trench the new conduit. A ton of TTC subway items get delayed (or completley killed like Sheppard video display screens or numerous CCTV camera installations) due to that reason.