TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[Second_in_pie]

So thats 4 years just to replace our existing streetcars. What about all these new LRT lines that they are planning whats the timetable on delivery of those trams. 10-20 yrs.

The TTC will undoubtedly still be using the current working streetcars along with the new ones until they have enough new cars to support the whole system, and enough ordered so they can continue with Transit City PT II using the new cars.
I always thought they could do some cool stuff with the old streetcars, such as turn them into restaurants (big tourist attraction) like they have in Germany.

 

[ShonTron]

I always thought they could do some cool stuff with the old streetcars, such as turn them into restaurants (big tourist attraction) like they have in Germany.

One PCC is indeed part of a restaurant:

http://spacing.ca/wire/2007/07/29/where-have-our-streetcars-gone-part-ii/

 

[Second_in_pie]

Superburger would never be the same without it, but I was thinking more for still running on the rails, touring around the city while eating lunch. Not that it wouldn't screw with transit schedules, but it would definitely be cool as hell.

 

[drum118]

The TTC will undoubtedly still be using the current working streetcars along with the new ones until they have enough new cars to support the whole system, and enough ordered so they can continue with Transit City PT II using the new cars.
I always thought they could do some cool stuff with the old streetcars, such as turn them into restaurants (big tourist attraction) like they have in Germany.

TTC Will not have enough cars to meet the service needs for the existing system without adding more cars to the current order.

Given it a fact that close to 50% of the spares are unserviceible, where is TTC going to get 7 cars for the new Queens Quay line come 2012, as well 2 for Cherry St. Then there will be another 5 for Cherry St extension and Commissioner line.

It will be intersting to see if all the cars that were on St Clair will return that were up there in the first place when it goes back into operation in 2010.

The only thing saving TTC now is all the rail construction. 4 lines will be out of service in 2010 for rebuilding.

If and when the Western Waterfront extension takes place, where the extra cars for it.

You can't use TC cars in the current systems as they will be duel end with doors on both sides. This is the way to go for the current system and they will travel anywhere the tracks are.

 

[rbt]

You can't use TC cars in the current systems as they will be duel end with doors on both sides. This is the way to go for the current system and they will travel anywhere the tracks are.

Provided Transit City cars can go through the loops there is no reason at all why they wouldn't be usable on the current system. Drive from a single end, take the loops, use one set of doors only.

Perhaps you meant the CLRVs cannot be used on Transit City lines? If so, then I agree.

 

[DavidH]

Provided Transit City cars can go through the loops there is no reason at all why they wouldn't be usable on the current system. Drive from a single end, take the loops, use one set of doors only.

Assuming that the current system is pantograph-compatible by then.

 

[andomano]

Provided Transit City cars can go through the loops there is no reason at all why they wouldn't be usable on the current system. Drive from a single end, take the loops, use one set of doors only.

Perhaps you meant the CLRVs cannot be used on Transit City lines? If so, then I agree.

The CLRVs will not be "legal" vehicles of operation by 2015(?) because they are not wheelchair accessible. The TTC will have to spend some money to rebuilt and retrofit old equipment just to avoid paying fines if continued use of them are desired.

 

[andomano]

From the TTC site; the plan seems to be use the same vehicles on the streetcar routes and the LRTs.

Source

First prototype by 2012
Next generation streetcars

Toronto’s next generation of streetcars will be accessible!

Toronto loves its streetcars. And now the TTC is poised to bring the very best light rail vehicles (LRVs) to every corner of the city.

To kick-off the ambitious Transit City expansion plan, and to ensure that the TTC’s popular existing streetcar routes become accessible for all, the TTC has started the process of acquiring hundreds of new, low-floor LRVs for Toronto.

The first LRV prototype is scheduled to arrive in Toronto by 2012 – and it’s going to be fast, reliable, comfortable and accessible.

 

[DavidH]

From the TTC site; the plan seems to be use the same vehicles on the streetcar routes and the LRTs.

You shouldn't read too much into a PR release. We know for a fact that the intent is for TC cars to be double-ended, have doors on both sides, and have pantographs.

 

[nfitz]

The CLRVs will not be "legal" vehicles of operation by 2015(?) because they are not wheelchair accessible.

2025 ... by which point the newest ALRV will be 36 years old. It's a long-term issue, but as long as replacement vehicles are ordered by 2020, it won't be an issue - assuming there are no extensions. I think TTC has set a 2018 goal themselves, but that doesn't make it not "legal".

 

[rbt]

Assuming that the current system is pantograph-compatible by then.

Forgot that bit.

I know Fleet Street was converted and Queens Quay/Union will likely be converted so some routes would be ready in 2011.

Anyway, putting a trolley pole kit onto the newer rolling stock isn't all that time consuming or costly.

 

[Voltz]

Forgot that bit.


Anyway, putting a trolley pole kit onto the newer rolling stock isn't all that time consuming or costly.

Not that hard? you do realize this is the TTC were talking about

I have read that the TC lines will use a higher voltage than the existing Streetcar network, So the vehicles would need to be able to operate on either voltage.

 

[andomano]

You shouldn't read too much into a PR release. We know for a fact that the intent is for TC cars to be double-ended, have doors on both sides, and have pantographs.

The intention of that post was not to deny that fact. I posted the information from the TTC to show that they intend to use the same new vehicles on both traditional streetcar routes at the TC routes.

2025 ... by which point the newest ALRV will be 36 years old. It's a long-term issue, but as long as replacement vehicles are ordered by 2020, it won't be an issue - assuming there are no extensions. I think TTC has set a 2018 goal themselves, but that doesn't make it not "legal".

Of course it makes the vehicle 'illegal'. It'll be breaking the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act where requires that all transit services and facilities be accessible by 2025.
If you can be sued or fined for something, you are doing something unlawful.

 

[rbt]

Not that hard? you do realize this is the TTC were talking about

I have read that the TC lines will use a higher voltage than the existing Streetcar network, So the vehicles would need to be able to operate on either voltage.

Political, managerial, and mechanical issues are separate. This is primarily a mechanical issue and TTC still has a pretty good team of mechanics.

Running voltage, double ended, doors on both sides, electrical connection (pantograph/trolley pole) are pretty minor issues, changeable in a standard rebuild process.


Things you cannot change is the capability to handle a tight curve or steep grades. Those are pretty much designed in from the beginning.


Whether you want to use a Transit City vehicle on the old system or not is a political/managerial issue. Whether you can is a technical issue and I have no doubt the mechanics could price out and perform such a conversion provided the grades/curves are in the initial design.

 

[ShonTron]

The TTC mechanics at Hillcrest could theoretically build their own buses. If you consider the amount of work that went into the GM New Look rebuilds, they practically replaced everything other than the shell and some of the components. The rebuilds were so drastic, the numbers of the rebuilt buses were replaced from the #8000 series to the #2000 series.