andomano
Active Member
^ Here Here!
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Oh geeze....I think what I was trying to say was: where're our sexy streetcars?
jks
Continuous Lurker
I hope not, I was shocked to find out only last month that an American company bought the HBC. That is the oldest company on the continent, and is older than Canada itself. But more importantly, it has become symbolic to Canada. Sigh, will this ever end?!
On a more lighter note, Canadian banks are buying American banks left right and centre. TD Banknorth even has a stadium named after it!
But now back on topic!! I hope they finalize this soon, it's been forever. And, as MTown says, where IS our sexy streetcars??
Whoaccio
Senior Member
I think anybody who takes a serious look at the companies you mentioned will come to the conclusion that they are much more accurately described as "multi-national" than "American." The one thing I would say is that the USA is such a massive country it can almost become synonymous with the world (or western world at least) in that pretty much every company has massive US operations.
Bombardier though really isn't a Canadian company in any sense more than it is HQed in Montreal. Especially when it comes to trains, most of its customers are European, most of its design and engineering work is done in Europe and its management is located in Berlin. Does that make it German? No, but it definitely isn't accurate to refer to them as "Canadian." Manulife is an interesting example as well, given that a good bulk of its operations are run out of Boston.
Just answer these questions:
Is Bank of Montreal, HQed in Montreal, a "Montreal Company"?
What nationality are the 700,000 companies HQed in the Virgin Islands?
What nationality is Imperial Oil?
The correct answer is more or less corporations really shouldn't be thought of as though they are "citizens" (even if, legally speaking, they are, sort of). Bombardier is only as Canadian as it is convenient for them to be, if not for the constant stream of subsidies I doubt they would be doing much of anything here.
Dan416
Senior Member
You really missed my point entirely. The fact that Bombardier is a multinational is a GOOD thing. It IS a Canadian company just as those companies I mentioned ARE American companies. They are ALSO multinationals. Multinational = big. Multinational = profitable. Do we not want our Canadian companies to be successful? I'm happy Bombardier bought that rail business. Of course it's in Germany because that's where the company they bought was located. Doesn't make Bombardier any less Canadian.
Answer me this: Is TD any less Canadian now that they have as many branches in the United States as they do in Canada?
Is RIM less Canadian because they sell more BlackBerries in the United States than in Canada?
Whoaccio
Senior Member
Ohh, I'm not upset about Bombardier. I just get frustrated when it is suggested that we, for lack of a better word, deserve swanky trams because Bombardier is "Canadian." They aren't, really, any more Canadian than Siemens or Kink Shariyo. They are all multi-national companies, not German/Canadian/Japanese. They all have global supply chains, global production and global customers. Pidgeonholing them into a given nationality is very, very simplistic.
This is an innocuous debate, but in some cases it can become ridiculous. Over the past while, GM has been beating the everyone over the head that they should "buy local" and such. Don't like our big SUVs? No problem, buy the Chevy Aveo. The less known aspect of the Chevy Aveo is that it is actually the Daewoo Kalos, designed and built in South Korea. They even had the gall to market it as "An American Revolution." The Toyota Corolla, meanwhile, is assembled in Cambridge Ontario but to the CAW it is still some rice burning import.
(and, just for technicality sake multinational does not equal profitable. Look at AIG
) Banks are weird examples in that they enjoy a lot of public (government) support. TD can never be owned by, or carry out a certain portion of its activity, outside Canada because of the Bank Act. This limits their ability to really be multinational. That said, I think it would be fair to say that TD has become "less Canadian" and more multinational in it's composition over the past while.
RIM is a multi-national, through and through. Even their trademark name, BlackBerry, was created by a tech marketing firm in California. Obviously all of their physical production is offshored. They just opened up an R&D center in Sydney and previously one in Texas.
urbanfan89
Active Member
The last part is false. All the manufacturing is still in Canada. In fact it's on their corporate campus in Waterloo.
bar1967
Active Member
Well according to the inside of my brand new BlackBerry Curve, it is made in Hungary.
MisterF
Senior Member
Yes, they make boats, snowmobiles, the Spyder roadster, and engines. It's a separate company from Bombardier Aerospace/Transportation, but both companies share the same history and use the same name.
To be more accurate, Bombardier gets loans from the government, just like every aerospace company. It also gets loans from other governments, like from the UK government for the C-Series. But unlike Boeing, Airbus and Embraer, Bombardier tends to pay the loans back. I'd say taxpayers are getting a pretty good deal.
You could make the argument that Bombardier Transportation is more German than Canadian, but Bombardier Aerospace is Canadian by any standard. It's basically made up of the companies Bombardier bought - Canadair, Short Brothers, Learjet, and de Havilland - two of which were Canadian.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
It should also be remembered that the Bombardier plant in Thunder Bay is the same factory that made most (not the first prototypes) of the CLRV's and ALRV's, and some of the PCC's streetcars. The factory operated under different names and companies, but the same factory none the less.
taal
Senior Member
Even if it's not RIM has many employees across the planet. Moreover, you're likely to see more international growth rather then local growth in terms of employment. It'll only be a matter of time before then have more employees outside of Canada.
jks
Continuous Lurker
My iPod is "assembled" (meaning made) in China. Does that make Apple, or for that matter thousands of other companies Chinese??
khris
Senior Member
Parts are made in one place. THen those parts are shipped to another place where the final product is assembled. Come on people, I think we're all smart enough to realize this by now.
As for our streetcars, when the hell are we going to be seeing the final design and getting the ball rolling on finally getting them made!?!?
As for our streetcars, when the hell are we going to be seeing the final design and getting the ball rolling on finally getting them made!?!?
Railization
Active Member
Bombardier designed the GO Bi-Levels with GO Transit's engineers. Those rail cars are Canadian-designed products. The T-1 subway cars are designed by Bombarider and the TTC's engineers. Those subway cars are Canadian-designed products. They're not German imports. When Bombardier has a Canadian client, they do design the things in Canada. With the TTC demanding 100% low-floor for a track network that goes as far back as to the late 1800s, and grades that upto 8% (!!!!!), this requires a custom design... it's going to have to be a Canadian-designed product.
I work next to an engineering department. There's a ton of Germans in that department. It's a Canadian company though. There's a lot of Chinese-background employees there. Both groups speak their native languages with other co-workers that have the native language in common. Does this make this Canadian company less Canadian? In a very small company I worked for in the past, I had a boss that was from Austria, and also an engineer, does that make him and his company less Canadian?
Please, the idea that the company's nationality is decided by the make-up of its employees is silly. It's who owns the company that matters. For example, CN is owned by a Chicago-based company, so it's American. Bombardier is still Canadian-owned.
I work next to an engineering department. There's a ton of Germans in that department. It's a Canadian company though. There's a lot of Chinese-background employees there. Both groups speak their native languages with other co-workers that have the native language in common. Does this make this Canadian company less Canadian? In a very small company I worked for in the past, I had a boss that was from Austria, and also an engineer, does that make him and his company less Canadian?
Please, the idea that the company's nationality is decided by the make-up of its employees is silly. It's who owns the company that matters. For example, CN is owned by a Chicago-based company, so it's American. Bombardier is still Canadian-owned.