nfitz
Superstar
That assumes that Bombardier can actually make money on the order. If they are losing money on each streetcar (say perhaps it takes 2-3 times as much labour to assemble as originally anticipated), then there is no resale value.
|
|
|
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2008
- Messages
- 2,775
- Reaction score
- 273
- Location
- Back to East York... Alas!
Quoting JPM's credit guys: "(Bombardier) Transportation Has Value but What’s the Plan?
"The most value ... resides in Transportation, which contributes $5.5 bn based on 2017 EBITDA of ~$675 mn and an ~8x multiple. This represents moderate growth off the ~$600 mn we expect this year. While there may be some opportunity for margin expansion, the ~6% EBIT margins we estimate for Bombardier are not far off what we see in the rest of the sector.
"Strategically, there are a range of options for Transportation. There are no synergies with Aerospace and therefore no reason these two businesses need to reside within the same company. There is an argument that Transportation’s steadier cash flows provide a nice balance to the more cyclical aerospace businesses but it is not clear to us that the business will not be sold in its entirety, particularly if Bombardier needs cash, and control of Transportation would make the asset far more valuable.
...
"Since BA standalone would be a much more cyclical company, to mitigate credit risk, we think it’s reasonable to assume most if not all proceeds from a BT sale would be used for debt pay down. Regarding Bombardier’s role in industry consolidation, we do see this as a logical path, given the threat posed by China Railway as well as the fact that Bombardier has not been able to invest as much in higher value signaling in recent years and is unlikely to in the future due to Aero cash requirements. While it makes the path to consolidation less clear, management’s stated preference to remain in the rail business suggests some kind of JV."
It's possible that the Thunder Bay plant could be targeted for closure in a sale/JV/bankruptcy, but given that BT is throwing off cash and is the most valuable part of the company, one needs to jump through a lot of hoops to get to a scenario where any BBD company reorganization would negatively affect the TTC order. The union issues were much more trouble than a possible bankruptcy, from a slowdown point of view.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I was on one of the new cars coming into Sapdian today and there was another in front of us and we had to wait until it left the station just so we could get off. Is there any thoughts to expand the platform at Spadiana for more space for them?
drum118
Superstar
Its part of the expansion for QQ E line, but its only good for 20 years. It missing $375 million to do it.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
can the driver open individual doors or do all of them have to open? Like maybe if they don't expand it they could look at maybe opening the doors in the first and second section to offload maybe even the third if it's on enough of the platform
nfitz
Superstar
Expanding the platform at Spadina station is part of the expansion for the Queens Quay east line? I don't see the link.
Let's hope they can open the front 1 or 2 doors only, or the 504 is going to be a nightmare at Broadview station.
Megaton327
Senior Member
Their only option in that regard is to open just the front single door, which is of course a huge bottleneck to people getting off, and prevents anyone in a wheelchair from getting off. I don't believe they have any granular control over each of the 4 doors, though that's a shameful failure of planning--they can open all 4 doors, enable all 4 doors for opening using the buttons, or open the front single door while leaving the others closed (this is mainly intended for their personal use, getting in/out of the car at a loop or at the yard, or throwing a switch, not intended for passenger movement). I know they have a control for the accessibility ramp but I believe that one is hard-wired to open all of the other 3 doors at all times while the ramp is in use, there's no way to hit the front door and the second door (by way of the ramp control) while leaving 3 and 4 closed.
Certainly unfortunate they couldn't put a few extra buttons, or a touchscreen, with more granular control over that. I can't count the number of times I've been on an LFLRV approaching union and the first 3 doors are on the platform while the 4th is just a metre behind, and everybody is stuck on the car until the guy in front of us gets back from the washroom.
I've been on a few where one of the doors has a tarp over it and says out of service, and doesn't open even when the operator hits the open all doors button, but I'm assuming that's a more involved operation than hitting a button in the cab, perhaps opening one of the access hatches by the door and powering it off, or something like that. Haven't seen any on-the-fly door locking.
Last edited:
D
Duck
Guest
I thought they did already have a touch screen. All they need to do is get the programmer to add in the desired functionality. Wether or not Bombardier would do it for them is another question, but I don't see why not. Someone will have to pay for it. I work in industrial automation and our customers often ask us to add little features after the fact when a machine goes into production, and you start to see little hiccups. Usually we just get our programmer to do whatever it is for free if it's simple. This doesn't sound like a huge change.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Something I had wondered way back before the new streetcars were delivered (and I may have posted about it....but my memory is not good) was the impact of that short turn that 510s do sometimes (south on Spadina...east on Adelaide..south on Charlotte...west on King....north on Spadina)....either it didn't happen for a long time or I just missed it and now, twice in a week, I have seen it and it is not very pretty...
...major impact on traffic and a horrendous impact on the cycle track....which (both times I saw it) lead to impromptu and looking a bit dangerous interaction between cars and bikes (takes the 510 a lot longer to find a suitable gap in pedestrians to even begin their turn...then it takes a lot longer to complete turn due the length of the vehicles).....backs cars up into the Spadina/Adelaide intersection....cars (and bikes) all trying to work their way over to the far left lane in a very short distance to try and get around the turning streetcar.
not very slick execution at all in this circumstance.
...major impact on traffic and a horrendous impact on the cycle track....which (both times I saw it) lead to impromptu and looking a bit dangerous interaction between cars and bikes (takes the 510 a lot longer to find a suitable gap in pedestrians to even begin their turn...then it takes a lot longer to complete turn due the length of the vehicles).....backs cars up into the Spadina/Adelaide intersection....cars (and bikes) all trying to work their way over to the far left lane in a very short distance to try and get around the turning streetcar.
not very slick execution at all in this circumstance.
drum118
Superstar
A certain person within TTC thinks there is not enough ridership south of Kings St to justify putting more service there now. They also believe until something is done about the traffic issues at the Lake Shore, the extra service will be caught up in it and will dilute the quality of service north of King St. Gee!! I guess King Intersection mess doesn't count.
Disagree on ridership as it is there now. Traffic will always have an impact on quality of service since Transportation is run by car folks who can only see the next car in front of them as well not taking their blinders off to see the real world. Have to live with it at this time.
You can get away with running an extra few 510 to Union Loop and that will be the weak spot for the line. Need to do a stop and go in place of waiting for a minute or two.
georgevicbell
Active Member
Thinks or knows? Cuz if it's thinks then they should be fired...
We should be running based on data...everytime I've been at the Bremner stop there is 5-10 people waiting...and a bunch of people walking North to get to King...this is after the line has been basically shut down for two years...maybe they should do some counts at the bremner and the king stops and some interviews at king to see where people are walking from...
Napoleon
Active Member
Sadly they've been doing this short turn for a while now. It completely baffles me, especially with the size of the new streetcar. The left onto Adelaide almost always requires waiting until the light is red and pushing through the intersection. It then has to cut off bikes and pedestrians to turn right on Charlotte. Again, it has to push through pedestrians and cars on King to turn right. Then it has to make yet another awkward and time consuming right to get onto Spadina which can take up to a full light cycle. During this time, it completely delays any King cars. It also almost always seems to come in right behind another 510 car heading north. All in all, I feel like this short turn ends up taking half the time it takes to get from Spadina down to King.
the lemur
Senior Member
I guess there isn't a way to coordinate the transit signal at Spadina & Adelaide so that the streetcar has time to make the turn onto Charlotte before traffic on Adelaide gets moving again?
Also, since 4411 seems to be in service now, what's the ETA on 4412?
TOareaFan
Superstar
While it does cause a car traffic problem....at least cars have one lane they can use to get past....the biggest challenge is the stream of cyclists (not all of which come from west of Spadina, a good number come from northbound Spadina) and pedestrians.....so I am not sure how timing the lights helps at all
pstogios
Senior Member
The streetcar already has priority on the left turn coming south on Spadina to Adelaide. All they have to do is extend that priority until the right turn into Charlotte. This will eliminate cyclists coming east on Adelaide from west of Spadina, but not the ones coming east on Adelaide after having turned right from northbound Spadina (this is a smaller volume though). Altogether this will at least help the situation (and piss off eastbound drivers on Adelaide -- they can go bugger off).
As for the mess turning into and off of King St... that's a fiasco.