TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[TheTigerMaster]

If a newspaper or TTC themselves wanted to figure out the 5Ws of bunching, get three people to ride three consecutive streetcars with full schedules printed out (a bit of a tricky task since the TTC doesn't make grid schedules public, thus requiring lots of fooling around with Google Maps to extract this data). This way they could identify the chokepoints and what causes them.

Couldnt you could get the data with a freedom of information request? Maybe even just asking someone at the TTC?

 

[Electrify]

Couldnt you could get the data with a freedom of information request? Maybe even just asking someone at the TTC?

Perhaps. But it says something about the TTC that one would have to file a FOI request just to get a bloody streetcar schedule!

Actually, it simply says what we already know about the TTC:

 

[nfitz]

Couldnt you could get the data with a freedom of information request? Maybe even just asking someone at the TTC?

The data is available on-line at http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=1a66e03bb8d1e310VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

This is where the various websites and Apps get the data.

After riding the streetcar for years keeping an eye on what's happening using http://doconnor.homeip.net/TransSee/RouteList.php?a=ttc, https://whereismystreetcar.appspot.com/, http://www.nextbus.com/predictor/stopSelector.jsp?a=ttc, and http://totransit.ca/ it's pretty easy to figure out what's happening on the routes I use regularly. And pretty easy to spot which cars will likely be short-turned.

 

[W. K. Lis]

One thing I noticed about this series were the people who were taking streetcars long distances, several kilometers. Due to crosstown traffic congestion along with frequent stops, I rarely take the streetcar more than a couple of kilometers, tops. Let's just say I am going from Queen and Dufferin to Queen and Broadview, even assuming there is no construction I would take the bus to the subway, across to Broadview station, and then the streetcar back down. Taking it across downtown is simply an exercise in frustration.

That said, some of the complaints The Putz found were for St. Clair, which has its own dedicated lane. A quick look at its frequency on the TTC's site shows its frequency scheduled at every 2-3 minutes westbound during morning rush hour. Considering the length of light cycles and regular far side stops, boarding time, etc. it is no wonder that line bunches up! One missed light or passenger digging for her token, and three trams are stuck together.

If a newspaper or TTC themselves wanted to figure out the 5Ws of bunching, get three people to ride three consecutive streetcars with full schedules printed out (a bit of a tricky task since the TTC doesn't make grid schedules public, thus requiring lots of fooling around with Google Maps to extract this data). This way they could identify the chokepoints and what causes them.

The problem is that the so-called "transit priority" of traffic signals is under the control of the roads or transporation department. They are more worried about the number of motor vehicles than the number of people.

The transportation department give priority to single-occupant vehicles making left turns than packed streetcars or buses. Its ridiculous to see buses and streetcars approaching an intersection with far-side bus/streetcars stops, but to see them waiting at a red light.

They should get their own real traffic signal, and only their own signal, so they can stop at the far-side. The current setup is that the transit signals are combined with general traffic going in the same direction.

 

[spider]

The transportation department give priority to single-occupant vehicles making left turns than packed streetcars or buses.

Is there a medical condition that prevents a person from seeing a car with 3 or 4 occupants or a streetcar with only 3 riders on it? Whatever it is called it is pretty widespread judging from the evidence we see on this forum where cars are always described as being occupied only by the driver and transit vehicles are stuffed with riders at all times of the day and night.

I agree that transit vehicles approaching a far side stop should always be given signal priority whether there are 1 or 101 souls aboard.

 

[ehlow]

Is there a medical condition that prevents a person from seeing a car with 3 or 4 occupants or a streetcar with only 3 riders on it? Whatever it is called it is pretty widespread judging from the evidence we see on this forum where cars are always described as being occupied only by the driver and transit vehicles are stuffed with riders at all times of the day and night.

I agree that transit vehicles approaching a far side stop should always be given signal priority whether there are 1 or 101 souls aboard.

During peak hour, transit vehicles are generally very full, and obviously has more people on it than several cars, even if each car has 5 people.

Of course late at night some transit vehicles are half-empty, just like the road are half empty as well. Although, I find some transit lines are extremely well used off-peak these days as well.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Is there a medical condition that prevents a person from seeing a car with 3 or 4 occupants or a streetcar with only 3 riders on it?

Well the fact of the matter is that the huge majority personal vehicles, especially during rush hours, have only one, maybe two (I'm being generous) persons on it. I invite you to stand at any intersection during rush hour and see for yourself.

Now how often is it that you see a streetcar with only three riders on it? The only time I see that happen regularly is in the dead of night or early morning. Last time it happened to me with any surface transit vehicle was months ago.

The fact of the matter is that a surface public transit vehicle will almost always be moving more people than personal automobiles move in the same space. I don't think you deny that.

 

[spider]

During peak hour, transit vehicles are generally very full, and obviously has more people on it than several cars, even if each car has 5 people.

Yes this is the way it should be and often is but, "often" is not always or even typical, according to the chorus of riders reporting 15 or 20 minute gaps between TTC vehicles. Those gaps are full of cars diluting the capacity ratios so commonly quoted.

 

[innsertnamehere]

cars IIRC are the most efficient form of transportation if 3 or more people are in the vehicle. This isn't usually the case however.

 

[M II A II R II K]

I saw one for the first time today in action, on Bathurst St.

 

[nfitz]

I saw one for the first time today in action, on Bathurst St.

At about 2 AM the other morning I followed one in a 306 from Broadview to Woodbine. My streetcar was relatively full, and made a lot of stops. Yet we kept catching up with the new car in front of us. I commented to the driver that he was faster than the new car. He said, yes, that's what we're wondering about. He made a comment that in the couple of turns he'd done around the yard, the new car was very sensitive, and expressed concern that it wouldn't be able to run the overnight schedule.

Not sure what to make of all that ...

 

[ehlow]

cars IIRC are the most efficient form of transportation if 3 or more people are in the vehicle. This isn't usually the case however.

That's strange to me. Looking at a standard TTC bus, a quick google shows standard capacity up to 50-55 people.

I would guess that a bus takes up about the same room as 4 cars? 4 cars with 5 people each would be 20 people.

Of course, if the cars were going fast they would need some room between them.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's strange to me. Looking at a standard TTC bus, a quick google shows standard capacity up to 50-55 people.

I would guess that a bus takes up about the same room as 4 cars? 4 cars with 5 people each would be 20 people.

Of course, if the cars were going fast they would need some room between them.

Depends how you define "space". Bumper to bumper, 4 cars could fit. But this isn't how cars travel. If they're moving down city streets I'm guessing each car would take up at least 10 m of road space to safely travel.

 

[ehlow]

Depends how you define "space". Bumper to bumper, 4 cars could fit. But this isn't how cars travel. If they're moving down city streets I'm guessing each car would take up at least 10 m of road space to safely travel.

Right, so it's an even greater difference in capacity then between full buses & full cars.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't know if I have already asked this question before but who cares, I'll ask again....

Can the new cars actually be lengthend? I know they can't be coupled like an LRT train but is it possible to add more articulated section in the middle at some point in the future if they wanted to increase capacity?