TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[TOareaFan]

Right, so it's an even greater difference in capacity then between full buses & full cars.

I would imagine that any comparison of various modes of transport's "capacity" would be based on "how many people could you move on any given street if they were the only mode on the street" So comparing the space that a typical vehicle takes up is only part of the comparison......as is how fast those could move and how many of them you could move through in a given period of time.

It is not so much a comparison of the capacity of the vehicles in a given space....but the comparison of the capacity of the road if those vehicles/modes were in exclusive use of the roadway.

So one thing that probably works against streetcars (and buses for that matter) is the fact that they have to stop more often than a car on the same road would. While all have to stop at lights and stop signs....only public transit vehicles have to stop to let people on and off at transit stops.

It is a theoretical capacity measure of the road given a theoretical operating environment (ie. exclusively buses/cars/sreetcars).....it probably has very little meaning in real life

 

[nfitz]

Depends how you define "space". Bumper to bumper, 4 cars could fit.

Average car is over 4 metres long. A Honda Civic is 4.5 m. A hatchback like a Toyota Matrix is 4.4 m

4 cars would never fit. 3 wouldn't fit nose-to-nose.[/quote]

But this isn't how cars travel. If they're moving down city streets I'm guessing each car would take up at least 10 m of road space to safely travel.

Bingo. That's about right. And that one vehicle has most likely got one person in it in AM rush hour.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Does anyone know why the Flexity Outlook can't be coupled for revenue service? I've seen them travel coupled together and everything looked like it was working fine to me.

Of course I'm not an expert, so I wouldn't know what to look for anyways...

 

[drum118]

The engineers have stated that the current cars would have to be redesign to add extra sections. Talking to the other competitors as far back as 2005, they stated no engineering would be required to add or take out section.

Only a few routes would need to go to 7 sections once you reduced the headway to 2 minutes.

I am dealing with a couple HD failure and creating new backup ones for the photos and videos as I need to go to 3 backups on them and came upon a video I shot of the Siemens LRT in Budapest. All the drivers are just a year old and pissing me off as this makes 5 in the last 2 years It more at the middle, with the older stuff at the front with me doing some walking. Can't find the video where I told the movement out and most like have to do a new one. The metro is a block to the right of the platforms.
[video=youtube_share;tYbPcENpr0c]http://youtu.be/tYbPcENpr0c[/video]

 

[nfitz]

The engineers have stated that the current cars would have to be redesign to add extra sections. Talking to the other competitors as far back as 2005, they stated no engineering would be required to add or take out section.

Ah, but in an open bid, the closest competitor's cars were about $7.5 million compares to about $5 million for what we got.

If we need some longer units, then spec some longer units for the next batch of 60. It would be cheaper than going to a car that is easier to modify.

 

[smallspy]

Does anyone know why the Flexity Outlook can't be coupled for revenue service? I've seen them travel coupled together and everything looked like it was working fine to me.

Of course I'm not an expert, so I wouldn't know what to look for anyways...

The new cars do have couplers on them, but they are for emergency use only - they have only basic connections. If you wanted to be able to have them couple up for service, you would need the lead unit to be able to control the trailing unit (for both propulsion and braking), and to be able to monitor those systems as well.

I guess the TTC felt that it simply wasn't necessary to have them coupled up for regular service.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Thanks small. That's basically what I assumed was the case. Nice to know that there isn't anything structural preventing this.

I wonder how constly it would be to retrofit the extra connections if we ever did want to use the LFLRVs coupled in service. I imagine that this configuration may be useful on 512 or especially the 510 Spadina sometime in the future, if increasing ridership demands it.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I'm not discussing space, cars obviously take more. What I meant was energy consumption.

 

[drum118]

Ah, but in an open bid, the closest competitor's cars were about $7.5 million compares to about $5 million for what we got.

If we need some longer units, then spec some longer units for the next batch of 60. It would be cheaper than going to a car that is easier to modify.

The only reason why a 2nd bid show up was the supplier trying to keep their foot in the doorway hoping the bidding process would change from sole supplier to any buyer. The rest refused to bid knowing it was a waste of time, but also the cost in preparing a useless bid in the first place.

Going to longer cars and MU cars is not on TTC plates these days for various reasons starting with council itself. Given the cost has to be put into the 2015 budget, is TTC staff going to go and get correct numbers for those longer cars now and scare off the new council at budget time in 2015 for the extra cost for them compare to the current ones?

 

[nfitz]

The only reason why a 2nd bid show up was the supplier trying to keep their foot in the doorway hoping the bidding process would change from sole supplier to any buyer. The rest refused to bid knowing it was a waste of time, but also the cost in preparing a useless bid in the first place.

There were 3 bids initially, before TTC tossed all of them for being technically non-compliant.

I'm not sure what your comments about the bidding process being changed from sole supplier to any buyer. The bid was never sole supplier. The contract was awarded to the lowest bid. All Siemens had to do to win was bid $4.5 million per car instead of $7.5 million per car.

Surely a lack of bidders was simple recognition from the other bidders that they weren't likely to beat Bombardier's price.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Average car is over 4 metres long. A Honda Civic is 4.5 m. A hatchback like a Toyota Matrix is 4.4 m

4 cars would never fit. 3 wouldn't fit nose-to-nose.

Bingo. That's about right. And that one vehicle has most likely got one person in it in AM rush hour.[/QUOTE]

Then there is the real estate needed to store the vehicle when its not being used. Most want free real estate rentals, but some do pay the rent for the real estate. Real estate that could have been used for other purposes, but is set aside for storage of automobiles only.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The Pulse: Streetcars a no-go, say east-end residents

Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/07/21/the_pulse_streetcars_a_nogo_say_eastend_residents.html


Ditch the streetcars, be on time and offer more bus and subway service, say some Torontonians east of downtown. Every week, until the municipal election this fall, the Star is trekking around the city to find out what issues are on peoples’ minds. This week we visited Wards 26, 29 and 30 and asked people to tell us one thing they would change about transit in Toronto if they could.

“I think streetcars are the biggest waste of money,” said Leslieville interior designer Kelly Cray, who would dump the rail-restricted streetcars which he says are dangerous to exit. “I think they basically cause more congestion.” --- When construction on Queen St.prevented the streetcars from operating, they were replaced with buses, said Cray, who claimed they are faster. Cray tends to cycle, which he admitted is more dangerous. --- Cray’s anti-streetcar sentiment is echoed by photographer Anthony Tuccitto. “They block the road,” said Tuccitto. --- Nick Rivera, another cyclist who bikes from Leslieville into downtown, said streetcars block emergency vehicles. “I can outride it with my bike,” said Rivera of the streetcar.

.....

 

[W. K. Lis]

The new streetcars with new sounds.

Click on this link.

 

[ehlow]

The new streetcars with new sounds.

Click on this link.

That's really cool!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That may get annoying.