W. K. Lis
Superstar
Trams (AKA streetcars) with pedestrian mall in Zurich.
[video=youtube_share;KxCudfxrdcI]http://youtu.be/KxCudfxrdcI[/video]
[video=youtube_share;KxCudfxrdcI]http://youtu.be/KxCudfxrdcI[/video]
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BurlOak
Senior Member
TTC boss suggests banning cars from downtown King St. at rush hours
Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...cars_from_downtown_king_st_at_rush_hours.html
It’s time to look at taking the cars off downtown King St. — and maybe Queen as well — at least in the morning rush, says the head of the TTC.
- Councillor Karen Stintz, who chairs the TTC board, will move a motion there Monday asking staff to assess the feasibility of trying a transit corridor on King as a pilot during the 2015 Pan Am Games. The time has come for radical solutions if those cars are going to move unimpeded through the downtown, Byford said. The TTC would have to work with the city to assess the impact on traffic and business. “We need to get serious about enabling surface transit to move freely at the busiest times, in addition to introducing larger vehicles,†he said.
- “If you really want to crack the age-old problem of streetcars running in mixed traffic, coming up against people trying to do left turns or other blockages, is it not time to revisit — just as a study — the political and public appetite for a 7 a.m. until 9 a.m. transit-only-in-one-direction road, and displace the traffic elsewhere,†said Byford. “We’ve got to at least reopen that debate,†he said, adding that some city councillors have already expressed interest.
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The suburban equivalent of this story would be the confirmation that you can not have cars and transit mixed on a busy transit route like Eglinton. Either we ban all cars from Eglinton, or we are forced to Grade-separate the line.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
What how are they even remotely similar? The eglinton surface portion will have the exact same advantages as the king street portion. Exclusive ROW, no blockage of stations allowing for quick boarding, etc. a ROW would be ideal for king, but the street is simply not wide enough. Eglinton is though, and therefor is getting one. (BTW I do support an elevated eglinton for network purposes, but to suggest that eglinton will face the same problems king currently has is absurd)
Voltz
Senior Member
I don't think they're equivalent, Eglinton east has enough room for both on the surface, King street does not.
dowlingm
Senior Member
We must do something now! Or July 2015. Because what's two years?
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Stop blaming Toronto motorists for poor public policy (Rant)
Read More: http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/20/stop-blaming-toronto-motorists-for-poor-public-policy
Toronto is sure getting its hate on against motorists. No matter that they are taxed, tolled and relentlessly ticketed at every turn. Forget that to even own a car in the 21st century is to be regarded as being in league with the devil and to dare to drive it is to conspire with Satan himself.
- Lumbering, awkward, traffic-choking streetcars that are hopelessly, inexcusably unreliable and obstructive. The call to at least contemplate clearing downtown King St. — and maybe Queen as well — in the morning rush, comes from the head of the TTC. CEO Andy Byford says Toronto needs new solutions for the bunching and short-turns that plague downtown streetcars. He wants an end to the long gaps in service before two or three cars show up at once.
- So his simple solution is to test the public appetite for change — via a study — and consider the option of a 7 a.m. until 9 a.m. transit-only-in-one-direction road “and displace the traffic elsewhere.†Just where that “elsewhere†is isn’t mentioned, but maybe I can help. The traffic will appear on other streets that are already clogged, all in the name of clearing the way for yet more bloody streetcars. That doesn’t solve the problem. It just pushes it elsewhere.
- Of course, that’s a personal opinion. It is not the result of a study based on any sort of empirical data, but maybe it will help some. Especially given the exorbitant cost of any sort of consultant’s study commissioned by City Hall these days, but what the heck. I might just have saved the city half a million dollars or so by speaking up for the poor, benighted drivers of Toronto.
- Andy Byford forgets one very simple fact. Cars are not the problem in downtown Toronto; dependence on cars is a symptom of a much bigger problem of urban density. Without a remotely usable GTA-wide mass transit system in place, coupled with a downtown relief line to take pressure off a subway system already running at close to capacity, people have no choice but to drive. Most would rather an alternative but there isn’t one. Somebody commuting daily from Mississauga, Oakville, Vaughan, Oshawa, Brampton or half a dozen other points north of Hwy. 401 knows this simple fact. The lack of transport choice forces them onto the crowded roads. Which also begs the question: Why are drivers paying taxes for roadways if in the next breath they’re being told to get off them?
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Read More: http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/20/stop-blaming-toronto-motorists-for-poor-public-policy
Toronto is sure getting its hate on against motorists. No matter that they are taxed, tolled and relentlessly ticketed at every turn. Forget that to even own a car in the 21st century is to be regarded as being in league with the devil and to dare to drive it is to conspire with Satan himself.
- Lumbering, awkward, traffic-choking streetcars that are hopelessly, inexcusably unreliable and obstructive. The call to at least contemplate clearing downtown King St. — and maybe Queen as well — in the morning rush, comes from the head of the TTC. CEO Andy Byford says Toronto needs new solutions for the bunching and short-turns that plague downtown streetcars. He wants an end to the long gaps in service before two or three cars show up at once.
- So his simple solution is to test the public appetite for change — via a study — and consider the option of a 7 a.m. until 9 a.m. transit-only-in-one-direction road “and displace the traffic elsewhere.†Just where that “elsewhere†is isn’t mentioned, but maybe I can help. The traffic will appear on other streets that are already clogged, all in the name of clearing the way for yet more bloody streetcars. That doesn’t solve the problem. It just pushes it elsewhere.
- Of course, that’s a personal opinion. It is not the result of a study based on any sort of empirical data, but maybe it will help some. Especially given the exorbitant cost of any sort of consultant’s study commissioned by City Hall these days, but what the heck. I might just have saved the city half a million dollars or so by speaking up for the poor, benighted drivers of Toronto.
- Andy Byford forgets one very simple fact. Cars are not the problem in downtown Toronto; dependence on cars is a symptom of a much bigger problem of urban density. Without a remotely usable GTA-wide mass transit system in place, coupled with a downtown relief line to take pressure off a subway system already running at close to capacity, people have no choice but to drive. Most would rather an alternative but there isn’t one. Somebody commuting daily from Mississauga, Oakville, Vaughan, Oshawa, Brampton or half a dozen other points north of Hwy. 401 knows this simple fact. The lack of transport choice forces them onto the crowded roads. Which also begs the question: Why are drivers paying taxes for roadways if in the next breath they’re being told to get off them?
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Markster
Senior Member
That editorial is a laugh-a-minute!
Yes, I'm sure they all do.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I don't recall any tolls. Author needs to get out of Toronto to see what "relentless" taxing and tolling really is.
nfitz
Superstar
Highway 407. Not strictly speaking in Toronto, but given it runs along the northern edge of the city from Pickering to Brampton, many Torontonians are frequently tolled. Heck, from downtown to a location in Toronto like Black Creek Pioneer Village, it's faster to take 404/407 than 401 at some times of the day!
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
The good point in it was lack of decent mass transit.
spider
Senior Member
Enough conjecture, let's close King Street to motorists and cyclists for a week and observe the consequences. I have a sneaking suspicion that the streetcars will still bunch up because that's the way the operators like it. The number of riders divided by the number of streetcars won't change so how will the service be improved?
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
Does anyone recall the "transit mall" proposal? There's some material on it on the Transit Toronto Page at http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4103.shtml. In part,
"... the TTC proposed leaving a single lane open to car traffic. This lane would be located at the curb and would alternate between the southern and northern sides of King Street from block to block. This lane would be entered from a side street via a right-turn only. Cars on the lane would have to depart King Street at the next intersection, again via a right-turn only. Cars would be allowed to pull into the streetcar lane to pass cars and taxis parked at the curb. On the other side of the street, the sidewalk would be extended out to the streetcar lane, preventing car traffic from running along King Street for more than one block."
"... the TTC proposed leaving a single lane open to car traffic. This lane would be located at the curb and would alternate between the southern and northern sides of King Street from block to block. This lane would be entered from a side street via a right-turn only. Cars on the lane would have to depart King Street at the next intersection, again via a right-turn only. Cars would be allowed to pull into the streetcar lane to pass cars and taxis parked at the curb. On the other side of the street, the sidewalk would be extended out to the streetcar lane, preventing car traffic from running along King Street for more than one block."
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calimehtar
Active Member
Thanks, CaptialSeven, I guess I was aware people had floated this idea but I had no idea of the details. I have a hard time believe something like this would *not* improve the quality of streetcar service. If the streetcars move faster, people arrive at their destinations faster and the total capacity of the line goes up.
I wonder if enough has changed in a decade that this proposal could succeed. The number of people living, and I think working, near King and Queen has increased dramatically. I've noticed, too, that since the addition of scramble intersections at Yonge and Bloor, Bay and Bloor and Yonge and Dundas the volume of car traffic seems (just based on observation, not data) to have decreased. To me all of this suggests that the potential benefits are much higher than they were, and resistance to the idea may be lower as well.
To those who say, "we can't do things like this until we have a subway," - the potential of the King and Queen as streetcar lines is much higher than than their ability to handle automobile traffic. Furthermore, they also have incredible potential as pedestrian areas. Anyone who is using these streets to get from A to B in a car where neither A nor B is on King or Queen is crazy or uninformed.
I wonder if enough has changed in a decade that this proposal could succeed. The number of people living, and I think working, near King and Queen has increased dramatically. I've noticed, too, that since the addition of scramble intersections at Yonge and Bloor, Bay and Bloor and Yonge and Dundas the volume of car traffic seems (just based on observation, not data) to have decreased. To me all of this suggests that the potential benefits are much higher than they were, and resistance to the idea may be lower as well.
To those who say, "we can't do things like this until we have a subway," - the potential of the King and Queen as streetcar lines is much higher than than their ability to handle automobile traffic. Furthermore, they also have incredible potential as pedestrian areas. Anyone who is using these streets to get from A to B in a car where neither A nor B is on King or Queen is crazy or uninformed.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
There was a time that cobblestones were laid between the streetcar tracks. That gave automobiles a rough ride, should they try to drive on the tracks. For a smoother ride, the automobiles had to move to right. Unfortunately, the automobile driving lobby forced the city to switch, first to asphalt then to concrete. Now they only get a rough ride should they drive on the right-of-ways, even then it is not as rough as it would have been with cobblestones.
This image was on Rogers Road.
This image was on Rogers Road.
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nfitz
Superstar
Bunching? Surely you've observed the biggest problem with King is that at PM peak, it's faster many days to walk from Church to Bathurst, than take a streetcar.