TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[UD2]

You appear to assume that it was designed by the city rather than Bombardier, or that Bombardier was instructed to make it ugly.

Your sense of civic self-loathing is rather remarkable. Get over it.

If Bombardier had designed it then it'll look like a marketing project, which isn't what this is. The TTC streetcars is a government service and the paint job makes it look exactly like a government service.

I've always felt that Oakville and York Regional transit designs doesn't look serious enough, with the exception of Viva.

 

[drum118]

Can anyone do a side-by-side comparison of the Legacy Replacement LRV versus the Transit City/LRT LRV?

Transit City: removes seats where the 2nd doors going, as well for the 2nd control area, otherwise the same car as the Legacy car.

Too bad Bombardier does not have the mockup from New Orlean at Hillcrest at the same time as the Legacy car. This way, you kill 2 birds with one stone. Not sure if N.O. car will be at the Metro Convention Centre this weekend.

 

[smallspy]

Too bad Bombardier does not have the mockup from New Orlean at Hillcrest at the same time as the Legacy car. This way, you kill 2 birds with one stone. Not sure if N.O. car will be at the Metro Convention Centre this weekend.

Has the Transit City order changed? We are supposed to get Flexity 2s, not Freedoms. Last I was told, our cars were going to be more-or-less identical to Blackpool's new cars.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Platform 27]

Has the Transit City order changed? We are supposed to get Flexity 2s, not Freedoms. Last I was told, our cars were going to be more-or-less identical to Blackpool's new cars.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

As best as I can tell, a Flexity 2 and a Flexity Freedom are more or less one and the same, in as much as there are such things as common "models" of LRVs after accounting for customizations per customer. It looks like there was a recent decision on Bombardier's part to split the branding, and play up the idea that the "Flexity Freedom" is a variant with specializations tailored to North American customers that can't be found with their competitors. I'm no expert, but I have a hunch that they're no more different than a Buick Regal and an Opel Insignia. Whatever it's called, the TC LRV's closest relative is the Blackpool LRV.

Transit City: removes seats where the 2nd doors going, as well for the 2nd control area, otherwise the same car as the Legacy car.

Too bad Bombardier does not have the mockup from New Orlean at Hillcrest at the same time as the Legacy car. This way, you kill 2 birds with one stone. Not sure if N.O. car will be at the Metro Convention Centre this weekend.

I'm wary about disagreeing with you, drum, because you're rarely wrong, but I've heard differently -- although the contract for the TC vehicles came out of the option clauses in the legacy vehicle order, they're quite different vehicles with basically separate design histories. The legacy streetcar is a heavily-modified spin-off of Bombardier's previous-generation Flexity Outlook platform, while the TC LRV is a very-slightly-customized edition of Bombardier's new-generation Flexity 2/Freedom platform.

 

[Paleo]

The seating still bothers me. I have to agree with some of the comments here that it is a potential bottleneck, more doors or not. The TTC was moving in the right direction previously with the minority of CLRVs that had a column of seats removed behind the centre doors to increase mobility. I doubt that a similar change would be so easy, or so cheap, to accomplish in the new vehicles given how the seats will be mounted to the vehicle.

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is a great layout for a midday commute, but I don't believe that it's appropriate for the daily rush hours, with crush loads, and multiple people getting on and off at every intersection. Yes, there are sections of the vehicle that are more or less designed to be standing room only, but those will be quickly overwhelmed heading into, or out of the core, and that's before somebody brings a stroller or a shopping cart on board.

What are you people complaining about? (not just you but others too) The seats around the wheels? Look at the pictures and think about it for a second.

 

[drum118]

As best as I can tell, a Flexity 2 and a Flexity Freedom are more or less one and the same, in as much as there are such things as common "models" of LRVs after accounting for customizations per customer. It looks like there was a recent decision on Bombardier's part to split the branding, and play up the idea that the "Flexity Freedom" is a variant with specializations tailored to North American customers that can't be found with their competitors. I'm no expert, but I have a hunch that they're no more different than a Buick Regal and an Opel Insignia. Whatever it's called, the TC LRV's closest relative is the Blackpool LRV.


I'm wary about disagreeing with you, drum, because you're rarely wrong, but I've heard differently -- although the contract for the TC vehicles came out of the option clauses in the legacy vehicle order, they're quite different vehicles with basically separate design histories. The legacy streetcar is a heavily-modified spin-off of Bombardier's previous-generation Flexity Outlook platform, while the TC LRV is a very-slightly-customized edition of Bombardier's new-generation Flexity 2/Freedom platform.

I was just giving a quick high overview since I have not see the specs or layout of the two type to say what the real comparisons are.

We Know TC cars will have doors on both side as well having two control cab vs. Legacy car that will have one control cab and doors on the right hand side. Both cars will have pantographs. Legacy cars will use poles until the current overhead system is rebuilt for pantograph and that is already underway on a number of lines. A few intersections can handle both, but a lot to do before any other route than 512 can use pantograph on them.

I have heard a few things about both cars, but until I see more, can't comment on them for being fact. TTC wants a different seating layout than what Metrolinx wants just like the TR issue and this will move the Legacy car away from a standard layout that Bombardier wants to promote.

As for Aldershot Cold Storage, I had to laugh at what was being said about it not being a problem with the tracks so close to it during the EA study as well watching the track work being built for it. I knew it was going to cause problems down the road from day one. I have before and after shots of it, before it got torn down.

Sure enough within a year or so later, GO bought the land and tore the building down ASP, as it was causing problems.

 

[CapitalSeven]

As far as the seats go, there's really no option with low-floor cars - they nearly always have that seat configuration, unless they're narrower, in which they have might have seats along the window, and fewer of them. Remember, these are are designed for boarding through four doors, not one. Riders of long vehicles with multiple doors usually size up how many passengers there are and where they're placed while the vehicle is pulling up, and head for the emptier spots. Relatively few will have any need to walk through the wheel sections.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Of course people do create problems, but this is a 4-door vehicle with none of the dead ends you find on buses and the old steetcars, and, once again, all-door loading. If it's crush-loaded, then of course there will be problems, but in normal conditions there should be no reason for the wheel sections to cause big problems.

 

[Chuck]

Again, I ask has anyone rode the subway in Paris? The interior of their trains is nearly identical to the new streetcars, right down to the flip up seats by the door. Over there, you often have extreme crowding by the doors, with empty window seats. It creates an imbalance that makes the trains feel full all day long.

The TTC already knows this, which is why they are removing a row of seats from the rear of the CLRVs. These 8 seats will cause major crowding issues and leave people stranded on the sidewalk.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Since there are multiple tracks at Hillcrest, it would be nice if they could display a

• Toronto Railway Company ancient streetcar,
  
  
• a Toronto Transportation Commission Peter Witt streetcar,
  
  
• a Toronto Transit Commission Presidents Conference Committee (PCC) streetcar,
  
  
• and a Toronto Transit Transit Commission Canadian Light Rail Vehicle (CLRV) streetcar
  
  

all at the same time they show off

• the Bombardier Low-Floor Light Rail Vehicle (LFLRV) streetcar
  
  

mock-up, all displayed in one place at Hillcrest.

 

[Dan416]

Gotta admit that'd be pretty cool lol

 

[Fred.S]

Wish we had a transit museum in Toronto... Should hire some of those Halton County Railway guys to set up shop in Toronto, or integrate something into the Ashbridges Bay facility, where people could tour parked old vehicles, and have a view of the yard of new vehicles.

 

[RedRocket191]

Wish we had a transit museum in Toronto... Should hire some of those Halton County Railway guys to set up shop in Toronto, or integrate something into the Ashbridges Bay facility, where people could tour parked old vehicles, and have a view of the yard of new vehicles.

There was an RFP for a transit museum a year or two ago, and I believe HCRR submitted a proposal. I'm sure the file is sitting somewhere in a Futurama-esque master in pile.

 

[junctionist]

W.K. Lis showed the historic TTC cars, but the Toronto Railway Company's streetcars are also interesting. For instance, Toronto had open cars like this one:

(photo source)

These would be interesting to bring back as tourist cars, perhaps even operated by the private sector in the touristy parts of the city with streetcar tracks. Toronto's streetcar network is an icon of the city. It could be better leveraged for tourism and perhaps freight.

 

[ShonTron]

I don't think we need a full transit museum here in Toronto, just a museum gallery and good giftshop in Union Station (like the one in Grand Central Terminal), and perhaps some further collaboration with the Halton County Museum, which is almost impossible to visit by transit - the best way is to take a bike on the Georgetown corridor bus to Rockwood and bike the 5 km from there. At least the HCRY has a decent running track (on an actual former radial railway segment) and a good operating museum, though the management of it is touchy and not exactly the most visitor-friendly.