innsertnamehere
Superstar
I would enjoy living in a world where a 10km LRT is considered a "stub"
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By stub I mean that it only has a single connection to the rapid transit network, and it's just kind of hanging off there by itself. The Sheppard Subway is 5.5km, but is still widely regarded as a stub.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
because a singular 5.5km line is a stub, 10km isn't.
Xiaohaha
New Member
What's so singular about a stub line? I don't see what so especially magnificent about it.
DavidH
Senior Member
By that standard, the entirety of the B-D west of Spadina or east of Yonge would be a stub.
The common meaning of stub is the tail end of something, which implies short and not of much use.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Made some changes to my map from a few pages back. Tried to make it a little more "realistic" 
1. Toronto Crosstown's western terminal is now at Jane. Having that line go all the way to Pearson was a ridiculous fantasy. Loads of cost savings with this.
2. Bloor-Danforth terminates at Victoria Park. The track from Victoria Park to Sheppard-McCowan that was previously part of the Bloor-Danforth is now part of the Scarborough Express (branch of Toronto Crosstown).This means that only 3 km of new track will have to be built between Dundas (DRL) and Eglinton-Brimley. And it's much cheaper than what I previously proposed.
3. Bloor-Danforth is extended west to East Mall. The Toronto Crosstown's rail yard would go here.
4. Spadina gets an LRT! This is a modification of the current 510 Spadina streetcar to upgrade its operations to what we find on Finch West and Sheppard East. It would mainly involve installing signal priority, better management of vehicle bunching, the removal of some stops and upgrading of the remaining stops. My hope is that this would help to relieve crowding on the Yonge-University
5. Waterfront East gets an LRT! Running from Union, along Queens Quay and up Cherry Street to connect to River Station.
6. Now that Council has voted for a Scarborough Subway extension, the elevated guideway from Midland to McCowan has been repurposed to be a BRT. From there, the line runs east to Centennial (dedicated corridor, similar to the one for York U) and then north to Malvern (in ROW). North east Scarborough would finally have some higher order transit.
7. I estimated the capital cost to the City of Toronto for the old version to be about $30 Billion. Because of the Scarborough Express reconfiguration and the removal of the Toronto Crosstown west of Jane, this should be a little cheaper.
Old:
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New:
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PDF
1. Toronto Crosstown's western terminal is now at Jane. Having that line go all the way to Pearson was a ridiculous fantasy. Loads of cost savings with this.
2. Bloor-Danforth terminates at Victoria Park. The track from Victoria Park to Sheppard-McCowan that was previously part of the Bloor-Danforth is now part of the Scarborough Express (branch of Toronto Crosstown).This means that only 3 km of new track will have to be built between Dundas (DRL) and Eglinton-Brimley. And it's much cheaper than what I previously proposed.
3. Bloor-Danforth is extended west to East Mall. The Toronto Crosstown's rail yard would go here.
4. Spadina gets an LRT! This is a modification of the current 510 Spadina streetcar to upgrade its operations to what we find on Finch West and Sheppard East. It would mainly involve installing signal priority, better management of vehicle bunching, the removal of some stops and upgrading of the remaining stops. My hope is that this would help to relieve crowding on the Yonge-University
5. Waterfront East gets an LRT! Running from Union, along Queens Quay and up Cherry Street to connect to River Station.
6. Now that Council has voted for a Scarborough Subway extension, the elevated guideway from Midland to McCowan has been repurposed to be a BRT. From there, the line runs east to Centennial (dedicated corridor, similar to the one for York U) and then north to Malvern (in ROW). North east Scarborough would finally have some higher order transit.
7. I estimated the capital cost to the City of Toronto for the old version to be about $30 Billion. Because of the Scarborough Express reconfiguration and the removal of the Toronto Crosstown west of Jane, this should be a little cheaper.
Old:
Large image
New:
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WislaHD
Superstar
I saw that idea posted in another thread a few hours after I edited your map the other day. I think that is an excellent idea personally.
Dan416
Senior Member
That is an interesting concept, linking the BD extension with the DRL. Not sure it'd work, but points for creative thinking.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I'm not sure why it couldn't work, but of course I'm not involved in the TTCs operations. But assuming it could work, this DRL + Scarborough + Don Mills route seems to be the most beneficial of any of the proposed options:
- It makes cancelling the DRL impossible. If you did, you'd be eliminating transit in Etobickoe, Scarborough and North York. Political suicide.
- The Don Mills branch would greatly relieve the Yonge Subway north of Eglinton
- There are concerns that the currently Bloor-Danforth will push the line over capacity. This would eliminate the issue.
- It diverts even more riders away from the Bloor - Yonge interchange and Pape-Danforth
- Riders can now have a "one seat" ride from Scarborough to the core.
- It relieves the nearby GO train line
- It's a faster and more direct route downtown than any of the other options.
- And of course the price for this would be very low, especially when considering the improvements it would bring for travel to Scarborough and the RT network as a whole. Assuming the DRL is built, the only new track will be a ~3 km spur and most of that could be built at-grade in a pre-existing rail corridor if it's widened.
My only two major concerns with this are:
1. The Don Mills and Scarborough branches each have approximately half the capacity they would have had if they were separate lines. What do we do if decades from now, when ridership the Don Mills and Scarborough branches may be too high for the branching solution to handle. For this, I'd recommend roughing in an interchange station under Dundas Station on the DRL so we could easily split apart the two lines if needed.
2. A delay on one branch of the line will affect the others. We had issues with this back when we used the "wye" in the 60s. But I'd imagine that auto train control and platform screen doors could mitigate these issues.
Is there a possibility of including a similar western branch so the service levels won't seem so lop-sided? I mean, as it stands right now the DRL West north of Bloor-Danforth would have ~2x the frequency of trains on the DRL East north of B-D.
I do like the concept though.
I do like the concept though.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The western portion of the line (Bloor-Dundas to Jane-Weston) would already be the least used part of the line. Any more extensions would have abysmally low rideship.
I think the best thing to do would to have up to half northbound trains turn back when they arrive at Bloor-Dundas. It's not elegant but it works. And the headway north of Bloor-Dundas would still be decent at just over 3 minutes.
I think the best thing to do would to have up to half northbound trains turn back when they arrive at Bloor-Dundas. It's not elegant but it works. And the headway north of Bloor-Dundas would still be decent at just over 3 minutes.
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denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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Tiger I like the map. I would bring BD to Sherway and not the East Mall. I think Jane St should be part of the DRL and BRT from Jane/Bloor to the lake. Scarborough is fine and I like that DRL. They have at least 2 connections to Downtown.
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Come to the one in my neighbourhood, where the woman just glares at you the entire time, haphazardly slapping ingredients onto the bread while all the while maintaining uncomfortable eye contact. I swear this lady has a menacing glare which makes you think you are about to consume a cyanide club sandwich.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I don't think so. There would be way too few riders on a Jane Subway. The LRT should serve the area well for the next half century. And I was trying to keep the capital costs to the City of Toronto under $30 Billion for all the projects on the map.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
One thing is for sure, there won't be anymore funds forthcoming from the feds now that $600 million is being used for a 1 km rapid transit expansion in the burbs.
The UPX is already a basic subway and Toronto needs to do is add some more stations and use it as part of the standard TTC system and not a luxury liner. That however will require an agreement between GO and the TTC who hardly acknowledge each other's existence.
I still think the best option that is by far the most affordable, quickest to build, and fastest to implement is also the best option:
Electrify the entire GO rail system in the City {although the Barrie line probably could be exempted as it already follows the general area of the Spadina extension} and use those corridors for all day frequent LRT lines on LRT trains that can use standard rail gauge such as the new generation of Bombardier's Flexity LRT. Instead of using the main Union station they could use the UPX portion of the station. They could also be transfer onto street level along Front is capacity at Union becomes an issue.
This offers much faster service and can offer more point to point travel as they can also merge of the GO mainline routes to serve local areas. An example would be to use the Kitchener/UPX line and have half the trains continue to Pearson and half merge off in Northern Etobiko and head up on street to Humber College/Hospital. It would offer a very fast commute and people going soth of Finch to downtown/inner city would be almost downtown before a Finch West LRT even gets to Spadina station.
The UPX is already a basic subway and Toronto needs to do is add some more stations and use it as part of the standard TTC system and not a luxury liner. That however will require an agreement between GO and the TTC who hardly acknowledge each other's existence.
I still think the best option that is by far the most affordable, quickest to build, and fastest to implement is also the best option:
Electrify the entire GO rail system in the City {although the Barrie line probably could be exempted as it already follows the general area of the Spadina extension} and use those corridors for all day frequent LRT lines on LRT trains that can use standard rail gauge such as the new generation of Bombardier's Flexity LRT. Instead of using the main Union station they could use the UPX portion of the station. They could also be transfer onto street level along Front is capacity at Union becomes an issue.
This offers much faster service and can offer more point to point travel as they can also merge of the GO mainline routes to serve local areas. An example would be to use the Kitchener/UPX line and have half the trains continue to Pearson and half merge off in Northern Etobiko and head up on street to Humber College/Hospital. It would offer a very fast commute and people going soth of Finch to downtown/inner city would be almost downtown before a Finch West LRT even gets to Spadina station.