Toronto Vita on the Lake | 177.08m | 53s | Mattamy Homes | Graziani + Corazza

Spend some time at Park Lawn and Lake Shore at any time in the morning or afternoon. People can't get out of their condos. It takes 30 mins to go from LS to the Gardiner onramp northbound on PL and 40 mins to go from PL to the Humber eastbound on LS.

There is no more room. It's quite a simple concept really. Surprised some of you haven't figured it out yet. Two roads to move 30,000 people there. A statement on Toronto Planning's prescience and success.

All the noise I have made on these boards for years have been exactly about this. The straw has finally broken and there is a constant traffic collapse in the area. So many new condos going online in the next few years too.. It's going to be a disaster unless the city earmarks a hundred million to sort out the roads/transit.
 
Humber Bay is a problem the city created on their own and that's why this area is a failed neighborhood. The city didnt have a clear and concise plan for the area when the motel strip was being dismantled and since they werent interested in coming up with a plan, the OMB gave them a plan to follow indirectly through the Places to Grow Act. This development will definitely add to the problem but there's really nothing that can be done.

I always wonder what could've been with Humber Bay if all the developments currently taking place along the lake were instead taking place on the Mondelez lands, while the motel strip could have been kept for a large waterfront park.

The heights of most of the developments in Humber Bay are excessive, and this one follows the same pattern. But the thing is, the precedent has been set by the already completed buildings so all we can do is just watch.
 
While previous posters raise some valid points, I wouldn't call HBS a failed neighbourhood just yet.

Christie site is a very large chunk of land, and if developed sensibly, can provide much of the needed commercial/institutional/office uses. If a GO station along with other transit improvements are implemented (i.e. streetcar designated ROW, Humber Loop move), it will work towards reducing the gridlock. Improvements to cycling infrastructure downtown and increase in bike uptake will contribute somewhat as well. I'm hoping that as the density and voter base at HBS increases, it will help steer things from the political side. I see Cllr Grmies' twitter getting more and more complaints re: issues here.

Have some faith.
 
Keyz said:
While previous posters raise some valid points, I wouldn't call HBS a failed neighbourhood just yet.

Christie site is a very large chunk of land, and if developed sensibly, can provide much of the needed commercial/institutional/office uses. If a GO station along with other transit improvements are implemented (i.e. streetcar designated ROW, Humber Loop move), it will work towards reducing the gridlock. Improvements to cycling infrastructure downtown and increase in bike uptake will contribute somewhat as well. I'm hoping that as the density and voter base at HBS increases, it will help steer things from the political side. I see Cllr Grmies' twitter getting more and more complaints re: issues here.

Have some faith.
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I have no faith. The city had 20 years since the start of HBS to do something. It's not like all this development was a surprise to the useless planners at Toronto Planning. While they're getting moist and bothered over a tall tower at the intersection of two subway lines they let 66 storey towers pollute an area that can't handle anything but low rise residential and commercial. Two roads people. We have two roads and next to no transit.

I hold Grimes responsible as he had 13 years to do something but instead he focused on the western edge of the ward where he's from anyway.
 
Filip said:
I have no faith. The city had 20 years since the start of HBS to do something. It's not like all this development was a surprise to the useless planners at Toronto Planning. While they're getting moist and bothered over a tall tower at the intersection of two subway lines they let 66 storey towers pollute an area that can't handle anything but low rise residential and commercial. Two roads people. We have two roads and next to no transit.

I hold Grimes responsible as he had 13 years to do something but instead he focused on the western edge of the ward where he's from anyway.
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Which two roads are you referring too? Lake Shore and the Gardiner?
Wondering if many might just switch to biking eventually to decrease commute times. I mean there is a waterfront bike path from here to downtown, isn't there? Winter would be a foe, but I have family members that bike all winter across the city too, so I suppose it isn't impossible if one dresses for the occasion.
 
Urban-Affair said:
Which two roads are you referring too? Lake Shore and the Gardiner?
Wondering if many might just switch to biking eventually to decrease commute times. I mean there is a waterfront bike path from here to downtown, isn't there? Winter would be a foe, but I have family members that bike all winter across the city too, so I suppose it isn't impossible if one dresses for the occasion.
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Lake Shore and Park Lawn - the Gardiner is not a road for the community to use to move around. Either way, it's congested 90% of the time.

There is nothing in Toronto quite like this. Name one area with the residential density of HBS, with no rapid transit, poor TTC service, and two roads to get in and out of the area. It's almost ridiculous and criminal that we've gotten this far, and I think serving the city with a class action lawsuit is the next step.

I work in a suit and there's nowhere to shower/change at work so biking is something I reserve for weekend jaunts, not commuting. What a stupid suggestion anyway... I can certainly bike at 26, but that's not a solution for 30k people to get in and out of their homes to work.
 
Keep in mind that the current gridlock during the morning rush hour is partly caused by the construction in the eastbound lanes on Gardiner. Extra lanes or new roads around HBS would do little to relieve the traffic bottle-necked further downstream.

There was a traffic impact study by Aecom that was submitted by the developers in 2014 as part of the condition for lifting of the Holding symbol off of west part of the motel strip. I believe the General Manager of transportation has approved the study. I wasn't able to find a copy of this report, but the snippets available in City staff reports suggest that the study found that there was sufficient roadway capacity to accommodate the ultimate build-out of the western part of the Motel strip. It would be interesting to see that report and the assumption that the consultant has made. I wonder if it might be worth requesting this document through FOIA.
 
Amare said:
Humber Bay is a problem the city created on their own and that's why this area is a failed neighborhood. The city didnt have a clear and concise plan for the area when the motel strip was being dismantled and since they werent interested in coming up with a plan, the OMB gave them a plan to follow indirectly through the Places to Grow Act. This development will definitely add to the problem but there's really nothing that can be done.

I always wonder what could've been with Humber Bay if all the developments currently taking place along the lake were instead taking place on the Mondelez lands, while the motel strip could have been kept for a large waterfront park.

The heights of most of the developments in Humber Bay are excessive, and this one follows the same pattern. But the thing is, the precedent has been set by the already completed buildings so all we can do is just watch.
Click to expand...

The city bares the brunt of the responsibility however, people buying/renting these new condos do too. Buying prebuilt is the definition of real estate speculation. With that said, It still shocks me how little time and effort is put into these large decisions. It doesn't take much to figure out this is poorly connected island.
 
Keyz said:
Keep in mind that the current gridlock during the morning rush hour is partly caused by the construction in the eastbound lanes on Gardiner. Extra lanes or new roads around HBS would do little to relieve the traffic bottle-necked further downstream.

There was a traffic impact study by Aecom that was submitted by the developers in 2014 as part of the condition for lifting of the Holding symbol off of west part of the motel strip. I believe the General Manager of transportation has approved the study. I wasn't able to find a copy of this report, but the snippets available in City staff reports suggest that the study found that there was sufficient roadway capacity to accommodate the ultimate build-out of the western part of the Motel strip. It would be interesting to see that report and the assumption that the consultant has made. I wonder if it might be worth requesting this document through FOIA.
Click to expand...
Widening Lake Shore would solve the current bottleneck because you have 3 lanes of traffic merging into 1. That is another stupid piece of planning in this area.

We're now doing 'another' study, because the 2008, 2012, 2014 studies were inconclusive. I hear a lot of studies and little action... Less talk more dollars.

Whoever touched this area (from transportation, planning, etc) should lose their jobs. This is the height of incompetence.
 
Filip said:
What a stupid suggestion anyway... I can certainly bike at 26, but that's not a solution for 30k people to get in and out of their homes to work.
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Wow... it was just a thought, but way to respond in an obnoxious way. Is anyone able to respond with decorum and class? In my opinion it wasn't a stupid suggestion, you're response certainly was unnecessarily rude though. I was simply throwing around ideas to help. This exact scenario happens in many cities around the world that have similar climates in the Winter. It is in fact a solution for thousands in many cities across Europe including the North. I'm not saying the city hasn't dropped the ball but dismissing alternative forms of transport immediately and emotionally isn't really helpful.
 
Urban-Affair said:
Wow... it was just a thought, but way to respond in an obnoxious way. Is anyone able to respond with decorum and class? In my opinion it wasn't a stupid suggestion, you're response certainly was unnecessarily rude though. I was simply throwing around ideas to help. This exact scenario happens in many cities around the world that have similar climates in the Winter. It is in fact a solution for thousands in many cities across Europe including the North. I'm not saying the city hasn't dropped the ball but dismissing alternative forms of transport immediately and emotionally isn't really helpful.
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Because it's such a naive solution that I've heard before. When the subway is too packed at Lawrence to get in - bike to work! Forget the subway or the DRL! Just bike! This is how annoying these suggestions are. It's akin to telling someone with depression to get over it... Not helpful and annoying when you're living through this city-imposed garbage for the last few years.

I get that Europe does it, and good for them, but it's not for everyone, and their climate is significantly better than ours. Those -30 winds blowing off the lake during the winter are totally cycling weather.
 
maestro said:
The city bares the brunt of the responsibility however, people buying/renting these new condos do too. Buying prebuilt is the definition of real estate speculation. With that said, It still shocks me how little time and effort is put into these large decisions. It doesn't take much to figure out this is poorly connected island.
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No - the city bares 100% of the responsibility. Full stop. Grimes keeps saying it's not his fault, but the OMB overruled him on the Park Lawn towers... LOL! That was 6 years ago! You've had 6 years to figure out how to accommodate the additional units!

Incompetence, but at the end, completely the city's. Jobs should be lost over this and these people are lucky their names are unknown to the residents of HBS.
 
Filip said:
Because it's such a naive solution that I've heard before. When the subway is too packed at Lawrence to get in - bike to work! Forget the subway or the DRL! Just bike! This is how annoying these suggestions are. It's akin to telling someone with depression to get over it... Not helpful and annoying when you're living through this city-imposed garbage for the last few years.

I get that Europe does it, and good for them, but it's not for everyone, and their climate is significantly better than ours. Those -30 winds blowing off the lake during the winter are totally cycling weather.
Click to expand...

Again, I was just trying to think of other ways to alleviate the situation. I get that the area needs more transit, but guess what, that isn't happening for at minimum ten more years if something was approved in the next few. It isn't naive either, and it certainly isn't like telling someone with depression to get over it. It was a suggestion considering the infrastructure is already there. My dad is 70 and bikes only to work. I guess it depends how closed minded people are to modes of transport where some input from the user is required. Denmark, Norway and Sweden get considerable cold weather too and Toronto doesn't get -30 winds all that often, but it sound like you've made up your mind that this isn't a great idea for you, so I digress as I am getting off the topic of the thread anyway.
 
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