Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

AlvinofDiaspar said:
I think the designation of the entire station complex is an overreaction against the clean slate redevelopment proposal of the early 70s.

AoD
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Hmm but realistically what do you think would happen if we had tore down and rebuilt Union instead of renovating it.

It would have been easier but all hell would have broken loose.
 
steveintoronto said:
All my cynical concerns of how Onion was going to botch the lighting were with merit it seems. I would have posted pics taken directly of the lights to show mechanical detail save that they were all saturated from the highly concentrated light source...
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I see what you did there. The Onion Station.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I think the designation of the entire station complex is an overreaction against the clean slate redevelopment proposal of the early 70s. These sorts of substandard outcomes are exactly the side effect of that overreaction.

AoD
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Nothing says that more than the absolutely ridiculous train shed. All that money so far, and it looks like something out of Bum Fug Lower Neanderthal. It's a pathetic joke. And yes @Richard White , the "heritage" aspect has been alluded to many times in this string. I mentioned it just a few posts back. This *IS NOT* a requirement in this instance, not to mention the VIA concourse is a facsimile, not a restoration. *Aspects* of certain wooden fittings or original windows etc can be considered "Heritage". What you see is about as real to "Heritage" as a set for a cheap TV movie is. It's Faux Pas at best. And it's fugging ugly and embarassing.

Some jerk somewhere is pocketing a cool $M because he/she sold the concept of "let's bring back the Fifties" as a marketing ploy. Conscription anyone?

I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't have been better, at the end of the day, to turn the existing "Onion Station" into a museum, and start from scratch a block away with something new, highly functional, state of the art, and *welcoming* to passengers and commuters alike.

What next? Psychiatric Hospitals with restraints, isolation rooms, lobotomy theatres, and "modern" green and pink contrasting colours schemes all in the name of "Heritage"?
 
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steveintoronto said:
I was just through Onion a couple of hours ago and little time to catch my train to Nirvana, but took a close look at the lights in the VIA concourse (And I would have had more time if it had been indicated that I could walk right through to Platform 25 instead of going back, up ramp, through the GO York concourse and down again to get to what turns out to be the other end of the horrific VIA tunnel of visual torture). God help the poor tourist when even seasoned users of Onion don't know which way to peel it.

And here's the 'Tunnel of Torture": ("Glare Centrale" en français)
View attachment 152518

I had very little time to test the light characteristics, but the actual 'bulbs' are of 'fluorescent *SlimLine* configuration', button end:

Apparently DC fed, absolutely no sign of 'strobing' that I could find (didn't have time to use my tuning meter to 'beat' against the light, I have a Peterson tuner) and the 'tubes' are sleeved in a strange way with an open slit on the bottom side of most of the length of the sleeve.

My immediate question is: "Is there adequate UV protection?" below that slit. Ostensibly the plastic sleeve that encases most of the tube is a UV filter.

But before getting too deep into the physics and electronics at play, just look at the end product: I've seen welding shops lit up with better distributed light than this!

Do you wear glasses? Good freakin' luck not squinting to see through the reflections on your glasses. I wear wire rim glasses, and even though the lense edges are partially encased, each time I walked under one of those lights, it flashed through the entire lens edgewise. Blinding!

Really made me relax and want to shop. Not.

"Heritage" You betcha...just like Ford's Model T factories with raw light bulbs hanging from the ceiling. This looks just fffing awful!

Example, except this has fascinating machines to toy with, but the same blinding raw light:
View attachment 152520

Now the good news: The supply and fixtures are all in place to add *baffles* and "diffusers"...and with a slight loss of overall brightness, but a huge improvement in *visibility*: Fibre optic distribution for the light sources, or even edge lit panels that work the same way, moulded to deliver the light in gentle ways can be added. Is this meant to be a Soviet Tractor Factory basement, or a place of positive interchange and commerce?

All my cynical concerns of how Onion was going to botch the lighting were with merit it seems. I would have posted pics taken directly of the lights to show mechanical detail save that they were all saturated from the highly concentrated light source...
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They now make LED tubes, to replace the florescent tubes. The electrical ballast has to be removed from old florescent fixtures, since they are not needed with LED tubes.

zeta-led-tubes.jpg

From link.

They come in different colour temperatures (Kelvin degrees), from warm white to daylight.

color-temperature-kelvin-light-appearance-ambience.jpg

From link.

I'm guessing that if we want Union Station to be used as a "bedroom", they should go with the "warm white". If they want better "security", they should go with the "daylight".
 
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W. K. Lis said:
I'm guessing that if we want Union Station to be used as a "bedroom", they should go with the "warm white". If they want better "security", they should go with the "daylight".
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Myth.

Color temperature does not necessarily equal brightness.

You can have super-bright netural-warm white (e.g. 5500K CRI90 at bright intensity) that looks brighter and more appealing than dimmer bad-CRI (6500K CRI70 at half intensity).

For example, the platform 27 LED lights are simultaneously brighter AND warmer than the HID lights on some other platforms.

(Note: I measure colors and light using colorimeters & spectrophotometers before. Although more for displays. I have a peer-reviewed conference paper on a display testing technique).

Anyway, back on topic.
 
It seems that the station isn't settling right... walking through the York street promenade to go up the ramp to the York concourse, I noticed a piece of red tape spanning the entire floor from Union Chicken to WVRST. The floors on either side of the tape are not quite level with each other.
 
Student99 said:
It seems that the station isn't settling right... walking through the York street promenade to go up the ramp to the York concourse, I noticed a piece of red tape spanning the entire floor from Union Chicken to WVRST. The floors on either side of the tape are not quite level with each other.
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Sort of like this..?

The-Simpsons-Season-4-Episode-7-3-edd5.jpg
 

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Student99 said:
It seems that the station isn't settling right... walking through the York street promenade to go up the ramp to the York concourse, I noticed a piece of red tape spanning the entire floor from Union Chicken to WVRST. The floors on either side of the tape are not quite level with each other.
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The levels at Union are certainly 'variable' and there are many gradual changes. Unless there is an actual crack I suspect any red tape is to warn of a change of level - though have not noticed that elsewhere @ Union. They had a pop-up booth there last week - was this to warn of wiring on floor?
 
DSC said:
The levels at Union are certainly 'variable' and there are many gradual changes. Unless there is an actual crack I suspect any red tape is to warn of a change of level - though have not noticed that elsewhere @ Union. They had a pop-up booth there last week - was this to warn of wiring on floor?
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I don't think so. IIRC there was no wiring along the floor. Honestly, unless there is a catastrophic structural failure resulting in the Canadian ending up in the Via Concourse I would not worry about it.
 
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Richard White said:
As much as I am fascinated by technology can we not debate lightbulbs, light fixtures or anything that has to deal with the illuminati please?
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Being blind certainly helps your case. For some odd reason, others are having problems with the lighting, let alone what's visible. They are connected...

Trying to find some background on the choice for the lighting fixtures in the VIA concourse, this shows in a cursory search:
City Council Decision
City Council on April 10 and 11, 2012, adopted the following:

1. City Council increase the 2012 Approved Capital Budget for Union Station by $450,000 gross, $0 net, and the 2013 Capital Estimates by $1,300,000 gross, $0 net, with funds secured under a development agreement for 15 York Street (account XR3031) to provide $1,500,000 for heritage architectural lighting and $250,000 for a heritage interpretation plan for the station.
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http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2012.EX18.8

Anyone know how that was to be disbursed?

Addendum: The above item shows chronically through yearly updates. Here's for 2018, and the post script:
[...]
There are also ongoing costs associated with the defense of contractor claims. City staff continue to work with City and third party legal to ensure the City's interests are protected on all matters related to claims received on the project. The goal is to defend the City's interests against these claims, and to bring these matters to reasonable and timely conclusion. Based on the status of this claims processed to date, amendment to the Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt, LLP contract is required to ensure there is sufficient third party legal and expert support throughout the remainder of the process.

The contract authority increases represent upset limits and will be amended only if required and entitlement is justified based on the terms of the contracts. Sufficient uncommitted funds are available within the USRP approved budget to accommodate these amendments. USRP remaining work is progressing towards substantial completion and these amendments will ensure the revised schedule can be met.
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https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2018/gm/bgrd/backgroundfile-112798.pdf

So what's happened with the VIA Concourse? Is this the abandoned end of the shitty stick, and that's why this looks so awful?
 
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Sandpit said:
"Heritage".
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That could be a good part of it, @AlvinofDiaspar has certainly made that case but "Heritage" deserves a far grander realization than toilet mosaic tile and blinding strip lighting. "Heritage" may be a complicating factor, but there's more going on than just that. Other cities have done an incredible job of retaining heritage and still having an uber functioning factor. Grand Central immediately comes to mind, but there's a number in London, LA, Paris...even North Toronto Station come to think of it...

Addendum: To cut Onion Station some slack, a lot of problems are the result of multiple tenants and evidently non-binding contracts with builders and suppliers. And the City's left hand doesn't know what its left hand is doing.

So here's a bit of a comparison to Grand Central:
Argent Ventures, LLC. is a privately held real estate company based in New York City that owns the land under Grand Central Terminal and the land around 156 miles of Metro-North Railroad railway tracks in the New York City metropolitan area.
[...]
Grand Central Terminal
In the breakup of the Penn Central Railroad in 1976, the land under Grand Central and its associated tracks continued to be owned by Penn Central Corporation but leased to what became the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. Penn Central as a holding company changed its name to American Premier Underwriters in March 1994. It in turn was absorbed by the American Financial Group.

On December 6, 2006, the United States Department of Transportation announced Midtown TDR Ventures LLC had purchased the rights from American Financial.[3] As part of the transaction the lease with the MTA was renegotiated through February 28, 2274. The New York Post reported in 2007 that Midtown TDR is controlled by Penson and Venture. The Post notes that the MTA which will pay $2.24 Million in rent in 2007 has an option to buy the station and tracks in 2017 although Argent could extend the date another 15 years to 2032.[4] The big attraction to Venture are the development air rights it controls above the tracks.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argent_Ventures
Lots of worms in those cans, to be sure, not least "air rights" but I digress. What's profound is that every Anglo nation successful major railway station reno has been by *private venture*! (The State has *partnered* in many cases, but not led)

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Centrist, and fully believe in the state overseeing transportation for the Public Good (how that's achieved is another matter). But one can't help but wonder if Ford, through no innate ability of his own (he has an ingrate one) got "Dysfunctional Council" right on matters like this?

Onion makes you cry. Perhaps it's time to consider selling it and using the proceeds to run errr...ummm...*transit*!

See:
New York's Grand Central – and nine other beautiful train stations
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/jul/26/grand-central-beautiful-train-stations-world

And at least for the Anglo nations, refurbished with *full attention to Heritage*, but done by consortiums who know what they're doing.
 
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