Toronto The Pemberton | 215.79m | 68s | Pemberton | a—A

Big Daddy said:
I don't like the podium on this building. We are in the process of sterilizing Yorkville. One of the coolest features of Yorkville was the haphazard European street mall feel of the area. That's now changing to stark square podiums which will not be either exciting or interesting. I think it's very sad for Yorkville to become just another downtown neighborhood. I for one feel that the character and nature of Yorkville should be preserved.
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This is a parking garage! What is there to be preserved here? The Yorkville you're talking about is on the other side of Bay Street. This is the side to go big.

Not that the podium shouldn't be good - it should - but what's in the rendering looks very preliminary to me. They're nowhere near marketing yet.
 
Um have either of you walked by this parking garage in its current state? It's horrendous. IIRC it has a dry cleaners sandwiched between two parking ramps.

I think the proposal is pretty daring at ground level; a jagged, highly reflective surface would provide quite the visual interest. Not to mention keeping the street a little brighter. And it looks like they have plans for two retail units. Overall I think the podium is the best part, considering the circumstances. Obviously it would be better if we didn't have a mountain of above-grade parking but I like the approach they're taking.
 
WiddleBittyKitty said:
This is a parking garage! What is there to be preserved here? The Yorkville you're talking about is on the other side of Bay Street. This is the side to go big.

Not that the podium shouldn't be good - it should - but what's in the rendering looks very preliminary to me. They're nowhere near marketing yet.
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Read my post, I wasn't talking about preserving a parking garage. I was talking more about preserving the character and feel of Yorkville. These ideas and concepts can be designed into new buildings as well as existing buildings its just cheaper to build a big box than it is to be creative.
 
Perhaps the point that Big Daddy is driving at is that it would be a nice touch to at least attempt to pull some of the character and feel of Yorkville west of Bay to Yorkville east of Bay by including design features in these new buildings that pay homage to the parts of Yorkville that the forum universally agrees is unique and worth preservation.

It seems a bit myopic to me to say "Yorkville east of Bay has always been unwelcoming, and therefore there is no reason to try and make it better".
 
langstarr:

While that isn't a bad sentiment, the ability to replicate the intimate qualities of that other side of Yorkville will prove difficult, given the existing state of block level degradation (e.g. forementioned 18 Yonge/Four Seasons, Cumberland Terrace, non-descript 2, 3s buildings) suffered. There is precious little of anything original left, and what's left isn't worth saving by and large. You simply can't replicate discrete 2s storefronts easily - and even that's not the trend in the "worthwhile" side of Yorkville...plus there is the question of how a weak 2s podium will blend in with a 50+ tower.

AoD
 
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kris said:
heres a closer look at the render

LddGQ.jpg
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Nice render, great design. If I were living there I don't think I'd be bothered by my view being partially interrupted by those curving elements. Certainly I like their graceful contribution to the sleek sides of the towers. And I rather like the podium being distinct from the tower components. I don't see this as ripping of One Bloor or any other current project in town - it's sufficiently different to be judged on its own merits.

What I'm a little leery of is the "hats" these things sport; they seem tentative and ghost-like. What are they supposed to be made of?
 
langstarr said:
Perhaps the point that Big Daddy is driving at is that it would be a nice touch to at least attempt to pull some of the character and feel of Yorkville west of Bay to Yorkville east of Bay by including design features in these new buildings that pay homage to the parts of Yorkville that the forum universally agrees is unique and worth preservation.

It seems a bit myopic to me to say "Yorkville east of Bay has always been unwelcoming, and therefore there is no reason to try and make it better".
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But how can you replicate or pay homage to the feel or character of Yorkville west of Bay on this site, given the scale of the proposal itself? The western part of Yorkville is made up of many small lots that are all predominately lowrise. There are no such massive towers in that part of Yorkville, so trying to somehow replicate the "Yorkville feel" at the base of a massive skyscraper is inherently contradictory. It's no more possible than trying to replicate or pay homage to the feel of Queen West at the base of a 70 storey tower. I'd be very eager to see someone's drawing of what they would consider a suitable podium for these towers which would somehow fit into the west Yorkville context.
 
Big Daddy said:
Read my post, I wasn't talking about preserving a parking garage. I was talking more about preserving the character and feel of Yorkville. These ideas and concepts can be designed into new buildings as well as existing buildings its just cheaper to build a big box than it is to be creative.
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Big Daddy, this side of Yorkville is dead. This project along with Four Seasons will bring new life to an area which had little to none before.
 
I'm predicting that the retail space on the first two floors we will taken by a large upscale department store, which I think would be quite fitting for its proximity to both Yorkville and the Mink Mile.
 
Ramako said:
Maybe it's just me, but the character and energy on Yorkville Ave. east of Bay is completely different than on Yorkville Ave. west of Bay. The street on which this project fronts is actually quite lacking in either. There's nothing there to protect.

I'm not sure why you're citing 50 Yorkville (aka the Four Seasons) as an example of what you'd like to see in the alternative, given that it's also a massive tower that is built right to the lot line in addition to having a hulking podium. Are you suggesting that the Four Seasons is consistent with the energy and character of the rest of Yorkville? On the contrary, I'd argue that it's hugely responsible for creating a new energy east of Bay Street which is characterized by strong streetwalls.
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50 Yorkville will present quite elegantly along Yorkville and the interior landscaping will be spectacular from what I'm read & seen. The hulking podium follows Bay Street which is fine, particularly considering that there appears to be a large patio separating it from the street.

In contrast this proposal appears to present an imposing wall along Yorkville. That's something we must try and avoid. I agree with AoD that the current condition along the street is not desirable but that does not imply that we should encourage furer disconnect between our new structures and the street scene at grade and above.

As far as the one market goes, it's relatively low cost work to apply for higher density and then just sit on the approvals until the market returns. That does not imply that the developer has any immediate visions of commencement. Look no further than Minto's site on Cumberland. Last I checked there was no launch date in site.

What this project ultimately brings to the community is likely a function of what the market will demand several years plus down the road. Whatever the case they must endeavor to improve the vibe at grade or risk losing what makes Yorkville so vibrant.
 
The main complaint here is something that the developer has little control over. The city needs to have the parking for the public maintianed. No development will be able to get around this. At least there will be proper retail and amenties at ground level, instead of junk stores and a parking lot structure 5 levels high.
 
CN Tower:

Actually what I foresee in the long run is the built form of this particular podium implemented along the entire length of Yorkville between Bay and (almost) Yonge, such that it becomes the new normal form for that side of Yorkville. In that instance, this project on its own won't be all that imposing - but would in fact be seen as an integral component of the streetwall.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
langstarr:

While that isn't a bad sentiment, the ability to replicate the intimate qualities of that other side of Yorkville will prove difficult,
AoD
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So its difficult, doesn't mean it's not a good idea. Most things that are worthwhile are difficult. We have become obsessed with height and lost interest in the street level design. Yorkville has a unique character and there is every good reason to want to expand that into adjacent developments.

Why not raise the bar, ensure the developer becomes creative and create something that's more attractive and in keeping with the yorkville theme. This can include a parking structure and anything else you want. The problem is we keep giving in to developers who would rather just built square, non-descript space.
 
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