Toronto St. Clair West Transit Improvements | ?m | ?s | TTC

[LowerBay]

Beyond the fact that I was broadly referring to "over 50 years old" (which could just as well be 100 years old, or certain items of greater architectural/historical distinction than others), it isn't a generational thing, it's a cultural thing.

Like, the fine folks who produce this are by and large (with some Steve Munro-type exceptions) of a younger generation than you, and they'd think you're an idiot for condoning vulgarian teardowns in Forest Hill. And so would their "new generation" successors 30 years from now, I suppose...

You'd be surprised. Just because you value 100+ year-old cockroach and termite infested housing, doesn't mean that everyone else does. It's a natural process of urban renewal. If they have the money and they want to tear it down and build something new in its place, so be it. It's quite obvious you've never owned an old home. Those older homes need constant work.

First Canadian Place, the TD Centre, Commerce Court and all those towers downtown weren't exactly built on vacant farmland you know. Are you saying we should have kept all those old buildings where those towers now stand?

And, as for whether the next generation will think yours is foolish and naive, it's pretty much guaranteed. They'll probably say, "oh, remember all those geeky streetcar lovin' poindexters living in 800 square foot shoe boxes downtown? ... how gauche".

 

[adma]

You'd be surprised. Just because you value 100+ year-old cockroach and termite infested housing, doesn't mean that everyone else does. It's a natural process of urban renewal. If they have the money and they want to tear it down and build something new in its place, so be it. It's quite obvious you've never owned an old home. Those older homes need constant work.

First Canadian Place, the TD Centre, Commerce Court and all those towers downtown weren't exactly built on vacant farmland you know. Are you saying we should have kept all those old buildings where those towers now stand?

Maybe.

And, as for whether the next generation will think yours is foolish and naive, it's pretty much guaranteed. They'll probably say, "oh, remember all those geeky streetcar lovin' poindexters living in 800 square foot shoe boxes downtown? ... how gauche".

Actually, generations subsequent to yours are "pretty much guaranteed" to feel that the above is a loss which wouldn't or shouldn't be repeated today, whatever the (undeniable) quality of its replacement.

After all, they've been rallying for this, too.

 

[adma]

And ultimately, whether it's re streetcars or anything else, it's why presenting these arguments in raw "generational" terms is fallacious. It's cultural, not generational--it isn't like the spawn of Miller-loving Spacing types is "inevitably" going to go Minnan-Wong on us.

Heck, if one considers the Spacing realm itself as the spawn of 70s-style Crombie/Jane Jacobs-era "urban reform", their "generational" difference might be more along the lines of an extension than rejection, i.e embracing 60s/70s stuff as valid heritage-ish stuff in its own right, rather than reverting to pre-Crombie throw'em away attitudes.

And likewise, LowerBay types sneering at "geeky streetcar lovin' poindexters" have always existed. Indeed, if there's any trend for them over the years, it's to flee Toronto and its meddlesome poindexters altogether--or at least to grin and bear it...

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

The telephoto lens makes the clutter seem a lot more problematic, that's for sure.

OMG the TTC is sooo incompetent they put the poles far too close together!!! This picture proves it!!! You can practically touch 2 consecutive poles with your fingers. Good deity no wonder this city is such a mess!!!! Break up the TTC!

 

[Glen]

To me, a sign that an area is going downhill are the pay day loan shops and dollar stores. Not that many on St. Clair.

Here is one.

 

[EnviroTO]

Funny. In the picture posted multiple times there is both a Money Mart and a few stores down a Dollar store.

 

[Fresh Start]

The telephoto lens makes the clutter seem a lot more problematic, that's for sure.

I wouldn't wish this chaotic mess on Finch West or Sheppard East, that's for sure. But offer sound, well-analysed and proven alternate solutions and I get mocked. Downside of democracies, I suppose.

 

[bar1967]

^^I find it doesn't look nearly as bad when you are actually there. The photo's do make it look worse than it really is.

 

[kettal]

I wouldn't wish this chaotic mess on Finch West or Sheppard East, that's for sure. But offer sound, well-analysed and proven alternate solutions and I get mocked. Downside of democracies, I suppose.

You're only going to get mocked more now. Downside of not reading the disclaimer above the photo, I suppose.

 

[Dan416]

You're only going to get mocked more now. Downside of not reading the disclaimer above the photo, I suppose.

Disclaimer or not, it doesn't change the fact that the ROW is nowhere near a straight line.

 

[LowerBay]

Disclaimer or not, it doesn't change the fact that the ROW is nowhere near a straight line.

According to Steve Munro, the ROW is straight. That section of fabric in the space-time continuum is warped. When you're an LRT big-got, it's all relative you know.

 

[Asterix]

According to Steve Munro, the ROW is straight. That section of fabric in the space-time continuum is warped. When you're an LRT big-got, it's all relative you know.

Wow, we must have read completely different Munro blog posts because the one I read at http://stevemunro.ca/?p=2947 seems to go on extensively about how the curviness is not just random, poor construction, but to accommodate left turn lanes, switching from centre to side poles and dealing with near or far side platforms.

What post are you referring to?

I suppose to avoid those kind of squiggles, they could have ignored the desire of cars to turn left and taken a bigger continuous swath out of the car lanes so as to be able to include the platforms on the edge of the right of way without having to alter perfectly straight line tracks.

Given these are the same issues faced by the section east of Bathurst, can someone point me to all the complaints of streetcars derailing or passengers bringing up their lunch due to the constant swerving back and forth by the streetcars currently running the route?

 

[Benc7]

St.Clair Lrt ready to open, from Bathurst to Lansdowne! Tests start around Dec. 14th, with service to the public begining on the 20th. YAY!

http://www.blogto.com/city/2009/12/...ending_years_of_anguish_for_local_businesses/

 

[LowerBay]

Wow, we must have read completely different Munro blog posts because the one I read at http://stevemunro.ca/?p=2947 seems to go on extensively about how the curviness is not just random, poor construction, but to accommodate left turn lanes, switching from centre to side poles and dealing with near or far side platforms.

What post are you referring to?

I suppose to avoid those kind of squiggles, they could have ignored the desire of cars to turn left and taken a bigger continuous swath out of the car lanes so as to be able to include the platforms on the edge of the right of way without having to alter perfectly straight line tracks.

Given these are the same issues faced by the section east of Bathurst, can someone point me to all the complaints of streetcars derailing or passengers bringing up their lunch due to the constant swerving back and forth by the streetcars currently running the route?

The issue is that unlike Spadina, St. Clair isn't wide enough for a ROW. The traffic congestion and service frequency on that avenue do not warrant a ROW. The LRT advocates knew this, yet they kept their mouths shut. We could have just rebuilt the tracks in mixed traffic.

 

[Jaye101]

St. Clair was a ROW early in the last century, the only reason why it doesn't work as well now is the accommodations made for the left turn lanes and the centre poles. Period. If neither were in the plan the avenue would work better and would be far more aesthetically pleasing.