News   Nov 14, 2024
Trio of High-Rises Reaching 53 Storeys Proposed at Milliken GO
 486     0 
News   Nov 14, 2024
Galleria 01 & 02 Welcome First Occupants at Galleria on the Park
 1K     0 
News   Nov 14, 2024
News Roundup for November 14, 2024
 457     0 

Toronto shootings

Admiral Beez said:
I don't buy the single parent causation. I was raised in the 1970s, when nearly everyone was getting divorced, and my mother raised my two brothers and me. We're all home-owning, good earnings, law abiding and decades married guys now.
Click to expand...
That's like stating "I don't buy the guns thing". Just because there's guns within reach doesn't mean everyone of them is going to be integral in a crime, but they sure as hell are necessary for a shooting.

Others have made the point in many different studies that single family homes are a factor in a majority of cases of criminal behaviour, just as poverty and social influence are.

The Real, Complex Connection Between Single-Parent Families and ...
https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/...single-parent-families...crime/265860/
Dec 3, 2012 - However, as he shows in his charts, crime rates began declining in the early 1990s, even while the percentage of single-parent families ...

The effects of single-mother and single-father families on youth crime ...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1756061616300957
by SK Wong - ‎2017 - ‎Cited by 1 - ‎Related articles
This study examined the effects of the concentrations of single-mother families (SMFs) and single-father families (SFFs) on youth crime. Five hypotheses ...

[PDF]A Link Between Single Parent Families and Crime - Digital Commons ...
https://digitalcommons.olivet.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1078&context=edd...
by N Howell - ‎2015 - ‎Related articles
A Link Between Single Parent Families and Crime. Nicole Howell. Olivet Nazarene University, nicolehowell2000@yahoo.com. Follow this and additional works ...

Single-Parent Families Cause Juvenile Crime (From Juvenile Crime ...
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=167327
by RL Maginnis - ‎1997
This is especially true for families with adolescent boys, the most crime-prone cohort. Children fromsingle-parent families are more prone than children from ...

[PDF]

Etc, etc, etc...
 
steveintoronto said:
That's like stating "I don't buy the guns thing".
Click to expand...
I agree.

Why are you using foreign reports to support a hypothesis on a Canadian or Toronto issue? Perhaps there are other causal factors in other countries that are different in Canada. Are your foreign articles from honest, intellectually independent sources? Always ask, why do they take this position?

And besides, searching for articles that support your preconceived position is easy, but it's intellectually backwards. You should start with the data and an open mind, and then make your conclusions or hypothesis. You don't just run a google search and execute an article dump like the above.

The honest approach takes more effort certainly, but I suggest you cast a wide net of Canadian source material on gangs, and then look for in-depth correlation and causation. I would not be surprised if you found a closer correlation and perhaps causation of gang activity with poverty, lack of education and perhaps child neglect/abuse, and other factors only true research, rather than what a dump of foreign websites may suggest.
 
Last edited:
Admiral Beez said:
Why are you using foreign reports to support a hypothesis on a Canadian or Toronto issue? Perhaps there are other causal factors in other countries that are different in Canada.
Click to expand...
I quoted the Alvin Curling, Lincoln Alexander and other authored studies a few days back. If you missed them, feel absolutely free to read back. My posts were interspersed with yours at the time.

Here's a link to one of the studies that I linked that specifically mentioned *societal*:
[PDF]ThE HoNoURAbLE Roy McMURtRy DR. ALvIN CURLING - Ministry Of ...
www.children.gov.on.ca/htdocs/.../youthandthelaw/rootsofyouthviolence-vol3.pdf
This volume of our report on the Roots of Youth Violence is dedicated to all ... Roy McMurtry andAlvin Curling, visit the Roots of Youth ..... public and to involve firearms. ..... Whether it was Black youth in Toronto or Aboriginal youth in Thunder ...

There's quite a few more, but to take me to issue over studies from other countries is not only indicative of someone obfuscating about (gist) "there is no Black community" but also insinuating that social studies describing the travails of youth on one nation don't apply to those in another.

And here's the link to your comment:
Admiral Beez said:
There is no black community.
Click to expand...
And yet Curling's and McMurtry's Report was on exactly that:

upload_2018-7-5_16-15-17.png


Full report
Volume 1. Findings, Analysis and Conclusions
Volume 2. Executive Summary
Volume 3. Community Perspectives Report
Volume 4. Research Papers
Volume 5. Literature Reviews
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-7-5_16-15-17.png
    upload_2018-7-5_16-15-17.png
    1.1 MB · Views: 624
Last edited:
sixrings said:
If that was true then these communities would not have protested police officers in their high schools. Yet they did. Because they don't trust the police. You can say it is all in their imagination but it is what it is. It will take years to rebuild that trust if it is even possible.
Click to expand...

It’s the noisy organized 2% who are responsible for all change (good and bad). I’m not convinced BLM objections to carding is consistent with actual preferences if residents in those neighbourhoods.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I don't buy the single parent causation. I was raised in the 1970s, when nearly everyone was getting divorced, and my mother raised my two brothers and me. We're all home-owning, good earnings, law abiding and decades married guys now.
Click to expand...

To put the question differently do you believe that statistically, overall a broad sample, single parent outcomes are as good as two parents outcomes?
 
^ It's a very real conundrum gauging as to just what is the predominant will of affected communities. The 'Heavy Hand' has backfired according to many.
buildup said:
To put the question differently do you believe that statistically, overall a broad sample, single parent outcomes are as good as two parents outcomes?
Click to expand...
It's a good question. As to why research conducted and shared with other nations on the matter is not relevant according to some is puzzling. I'd say it's denial:

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/ststclsnpsht-yth/index-en.aspx

Globe and Mail Editorial
The many fatherless boys in black families

PUBLISHED NOVEMBER 26, 2005UPDATED APRIL 22, 2018
Who is doing the killing and who is being killed in the wave of reckless public violence that has struck Toronto? Black boys and young men with no fathers in their homes. Yet as politicians at all three levels and black community leaders scramble for answers to the anarchy, no one has dared talk about the crisis of fatherlessness in the black community.

The silence is inexcusable. Growing up without a father present is now the norm for many black children in Canada, particularly those of Jamaican ancestry. Nearly half of all black children under 14 in Canada have just one parent in the home, compared to slightly under one in five of Canadian children as a whole, census figures from 2001 show. Two in three Jamaican-Canadian children in Toronto are being raised by a single parent. The U.S. trend of "radical fatherlessness" -- in which the majority of children in an apartment building, on a street or in a neighbourhood lack fathers -- is hitting Toronto like a tsunami.

Other countries have begun to acknowledge that the widespread absence of fathers contributes to crushing rates of school failure, teen pregnancy and violence. In Britain, Trevor Phillips, the chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, who is black, last month criticized the "almost casual acceptance" that most black children grow up fatherless. In the United States, black artists, thinkers and politicians as disparate as actor Bill Cosby, novelist Charles Johnson, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and Democratic Senator Barack Obama have urged black fathers to take responsibility for their children. They don't worry about giving offence, either.


"There are a lot of folks, a lot of brothers, walking around, and they look like men," Mr. Obama said in June, "and they're tall, and they've got whiskers -- they might even have sired a child. But it's not clear to me that they're full-grown men." Mr. Johnson, writing in The Wall Street Journal last month, said it "could not be more clear in 2005" that "without strong, self-sacrificing, frugal and industrious fathers as role models, our boys go astray, never learn how to be parents (or men), and perpetuate the dismal situation of single-parent homes run by tired and overworked black women. The black family as a survival unit fails, which leads to the ever-fragile community collapsing along with it."

Poor neighbourhoods in Toronto are crying out for involved fathers. The city's deputy police chief, Keith Forde, who is black, says that invariably when he speaks to predominantly black audiences, two or three mothers approach him to be a Big Brother to their sons. "Nothing hurts me more in all I do in policing than having to say no to these parents."

[...]

The "survival unit," the black family, is being fatally weakened by the lack of fathers. No matter how helpful social programs, additional police or tougher gun laws may be, they are not the heart of the problem. Reuniting fathers and children should be the top priority. Where are the black fathers, and where are all those who should be calling them to their duty?
Click to expand...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-many-fatherless-boys-in-black-families/article1331802/
 
Last edited:
Notes2Self said:
Blacks may be more predisposed to committing crimes, but they are also more predisposed to being in poverty. And, I really don't think it is racial nor specific to one cultural group (Jamaicans being named here).

I'd argue this is more about the representation of blacks and black culture in music promoting self-destructive behavior. "Smoke Dawg" the victim of one of these fatal shootings made several references to his street credibility in his music. It was only a matter of time before someone tested his "gangster" so to speak.
Click to expand...


The video is beyond appalling. So long as drugs, shootings, and misogyny is glorified it will be a cancer in the black community. There is an active desire to recreate US style problems here.
The new Regent Park is outstanding, over flowing with amenities and funded programs, decent schools, etc. And yet hip hop artists romanticize hopelessness, like heart stricken poets. Toronto is not a tragic place, not a hopeless place, its a safe place despite BLM's propaganda to the contrary. "Smoke Dawg" was an awful influence.
 
@buildup, drugs aren't glorified.....the massive profits made by selling them are.

There is a solution, of course, but most people are too ignorant and misinformed to want anything to do with it.
 
Juan_Lennon416 said:
and what is the solution and how do you know most people are ignorant to want anything to do with it?
Click to expand...

Legalisation, regulation, and education.

I'm assuming most people want nothing to do with it because it's political suicide in this country to even mention it. I know people who are against it aren't well-informed because the hypocrisy and irrationality of drug laws in this country are self-evident. Only people who get their info on drugs from pics of frying eggs (which, by the way, is a great metaphor for neural kindling caused by alcohol withdrawal.....the frying eggs, I mean) and what they were told in school by a police officer think the war on drugs (war on reason, really) is a helpful solution.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Well, we are for canabis, our most popular drugs; alcohol and tobacco are already. The hard drugs like fentynal are self correcting.
Click to expand...

Quite the exhaustive list that doesn't cover nearly one hundredth of what exists and doesn't address the remainder's massive profit margins.

What is a "hard drug"?

Is alcohol a "hard drug"? Because, you know, it's addictive, its metabolites toxic, is easy to overdose on and can lead to neurotoxicity and even death from withdrawal.
Is cocaine a "hard drug"? It's also addictive, cardiotoxic, easy to overdose on, but cannot lead to neurotoxicity and death from withdrawal.
Is amphetamine a "hard drug"? It's also addictive and can lead to neurotoxicity from large doses yet is prescribed to children for ADD, for example.
Is LSD a "hard drug"? It's non-addictive, non-toxic, hard to overdose on, does not cause neurotoxicity or withdrawal symptoms.

What's a "hard drug"? How do you distinguish?

PS: There is such a thing as a safe dose of fentanyl, so I don't see how it can be considered "self-correcting". The vast majority of fentanyl-caused deaths are of people who didn't know they were taking it.
In any case, what are we self-correcting? Not gun murders because the murderers aren't the ones dying by fentanyl, for example.

If fentanyl showed up in your wine or coffee, I'm sure you'd feel differently about self-correction. (I'm obviously making an assumption here that you drink alcohol and/or caffeine; open to correction, as always)

PPS: You left out the most popular drug in your list of most popular: caffeine. Also a psychotropic. Also obviously legal.

PPS: I'm sad to say that although it's still a great start to rationalising our drug laws, the new weed laws are a sad joke in their prudish approach. Here's hoping they get amended and bettered by the end of next decade! (Don't hold your breath)
 
Last edited:
Back to the video, because it's a good case study...

In a two-parent family, neighbourhoods & extended two parent families it's unlikely 18 year-olds would get the green light to produce these videos. Fathers would discourage videos that talk about 'b***** with their head in my lap' and the gunplay.

It's not like these kids are bad, they're 18 year old idiots (like all 18 year-olds) and no-one is there to give them perspective.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top