Toronto shootings

[steveintoronto]

1. I know Somalians - they don't consider themselves Black.
2. Many Somalians look down on black culture. Again, re-read the MTV article that YOU posted.
3. A lot of Somalians have Arab features and genetics.

I never said race and ethnicity are the same. Though I admit this does get confusing. But race is largely a social construct.
Source: https://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-experts-03-02.htm

Somalians are African, and Black.

This game could go on forever, so let's get it back on track: Are Jamaicans Black? And think very carefully before answering.

 

[Notes2Self]

Somalians are African, and Black.

This game could go on forever, so let's get it back on track: Are Jamaicans Black? And think very carefully before answering.

Somalians are muslim. I know muslim isn't a race but they identify more with muslim culture than black culture, hence why I said they are ethnically muslim.

Yes, Jamaicans are Black. They are racially and ethnically Black. Jamaicans contribute a great deal to what is considered black culture.

 

[buildup]

The black community has to lead on what exactly? You seem lost. People need to be held accountable and take responsibility for their own actions. We all play our part. This goes for blacks as well as everyone else.

As I said, does the white community need to take the lead onopuod crisis? The native community needs to take the lead on Suicide? Does the Muslim community need to take the lead when there is a terror attack by a Muslim?

Everything is a direct result of something else. Things don’t just happen one day.

I’ll be sure to stop the next black person I see in the street and ask him where the next black community meeting is being held.

When you say "people need to be held accountable". By whom? I'd suggest its an expanding circle - the individual, the family, the community, finally the govt. The closer the better. Most of the examples you list are in fact, best addressed by those you mention. Muslims have been instrumental in identifying troubled young men, the native community or elders should take the lead on suicide (who else), and if whites are taking the opioids then those closest should identify the problem and look for the solution.

 

[buildup]

You do realize the cone of silence isn't protecting civilians or criminals but police who are abusing their power.

That's lame, try harder. Do you have any systemic examples of this ''abuse of power?

 

[steveintoronto]

Somalians are muslim. I know muslim isn't a race but they identify more with muslim culture than black culture, hence why I said they are ethnically muslim.

Yes, Jamaicans are Black. They are racially and ethnically Black. Jamaicans contribute a great deal to what is considered black culture.

Well thank you for that. It saves me having to get it out of you in other ways. You're racist in so many ways.

Why Are Some Jamaicans White?
BY ADMIN · MARCH 25, 2018

Jamaicans of African heritage are the largest demographic but outsiders are often surprised to know that white Jamaicans make up a large portion of the country’s population.The country’s motto “Out of many, one people” reflects the melting pot of cultures that exists on the island.

According to the National Library of Jamaica, the origin of European ethnicity in Jamaica began with the arrival of the Spanish in 1494. Thereafter, the Spanish population decreased significantly following the arrival of the English in 1655.

The British ruled the island for over three centuries until Jamaica’s independence on August 6, 1962. Throughout that time, other migrant groups came to Jamaica as workers or merchants, including Indians, Chinese and German. Descendants of these early dwellers are still here today and their identify is very much intertwined with the Jamaican culture.

One notable white Jamaican is former Prime Minister Edward Seaga who is of Lebanese heritage. Another is Reggae legend Bob Marley who was of mixed race – his white father abandoned his mother.

Today, the Jamaican food, music, and many cultural traditions incorporate aspects of each of these migrant groups making for one very interesting, and eclectic mix. For example, foods such as curried chicken and goat, which are popular in the Jamaican diet, are of Indian origin. Likewise, Chinese dishes flavoured with West Indian spices are very popular in Jamaica.

There is also a large Chinese community in Jamaica. The Chinese Jamaicans are very involved in the local food and retail industry and their influence be seen in many areas of Jamaican culture. Tessane Chin, winner of NBC’s The Voice Season 5, is a Jamaican of Chinese heritage.

Source: www.nlj.gov.jm

https://epicjamaica.net/why-are-some-jamaicans-white/

 

[buildup]

What's racist about Notes2Self's comment?

 

[steveintoronto]

What's racist about Notes2Self's comment?

If it has to be explained to you, then it's not worth it. Read back starting as to why he claimed Ethiopians aren't Black, and then "Yes, Jamaicans are Black. They are racially and ethnically Black. " One of my Jamaican friends is what's colloquially called a "Chegro". Mixed blood Negro and Chinese. It occurs in many of the Islands, albeit the racial and ethnic groups tend to stay homogeneous, but some 'cross pollination' occurs.

But to Notes, the distinction is based on impulsive impression, which is racist. My claim for the problems Toronto is seeing right now with the "Black" community isn't race based. It's societal.

And I state it again: Using "Blacks" as the scapegoat is not only wrong, it prevents addressing the problem, if the problem can indeed be remediated, or at least neutralized. The problem is societal.

Addendum: Just to sweeten the pot:

Somalians are not considered black. They are considered ethnically muslim.

Islam in Jamaica is a minority religious affiliation. Muslims arrived in Jamaica through waves of immigration from Africa and the Indian subcontinent, and today make up a population of about 5,000 with several mosques and festivals.

Islam in Jamaica - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Jamaica

[...]
This same imperialism brought the first Muslims to the Western Hemisphere. These Muslims were African slaves who were uprooted from their homeland and shipped to the Caribbean and the Americas. Over 150 million Africans were exported during the slave trade mainly from West African nations which have majority Muslim populations even today.

Afro-American writer, Alex Haley. bore out this fact when he traced his ancestry to the small Muslim village of Juffure in the Gambia His famous book “ROOTS” is a vivid picture of the tyranny of the Slave Trade and the structure of ancient African Muslim society.
[...]

https://www.caribbeanmuslims.com/muslims-in-the-caribbean-2

 

[buildup]

You're being a little obtuse, most Jamaicans are black, what is wrong with that? Everyone knows there are also Chinese, Indian, German and Brits in the Jamaican mix.
What do you mean when you say the problem with gun violence is 'societal'. Of course, but how does that specify the problem?

 

[steveintoronto]

What do you mean when you say the problem with gun violence is 'societal'.

"Obtuse"? How clear does this have to be? It's not *Black*.

We can’t keep tiptoeing around black-on-black violence

MARCUS GEE
PUBLISHED FEBRUARY 20, 2013UPDATED MAY 11, 2018
[...]
Alvin Curling, a former provincial cabinet minister who helped write a report on youth violence, told The Globe and Mail's Sunny Dhillon that it's not a black problem. It's a societal and community problem, with roots in poverty and mental-health issues.
[...]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...round-black-on-black-violence/article8907404/

And as it appears I have to point out the obvious, Alvin Curling is not only Black, but Jamaican, and a highly honourable man:

The currently retired Liberal Member of the Provincial Parliament (MPP) in Ontario, Canada and Speaker of the Ontario Legislature, Honourable Dr. Alvin Curling, is a Jamaican-born Canadian who has been actively involved in Canadian politics for over twenty years. Prior to migrating to Canada, Curling had been involved in many leadership initiatives since the age of 14. Curling has continued to maintain close relationship with Jamaica. As the President of World Literacy of Canada from 1981 to 1984 he focused on improving literacy in Brown’s Town, St. Ann (Jamaica). He has been sponsoring Juno Pen Basic School in St. Mary as part of the Adopt-a-School program for over five years. Additionally, he has donated computers and other equipment to a number of schools in West Kingston.
[...]

http://callingalljamaicans.org/project/dr-alvin-curling-2

 

[buildup]

"Obtuse"? How clear does this have to be? It's not *Black*.

By your logic spousal abuse is not Male its Societal.
Anyway, not to sound cliche or virtue signaling, but I do want to be clear. I like Jamaicans A LOT, have been best man at a Jamaican wedding, attended others, and contributed to scholarships in Jane/Finch (non-tax deductable) through the Police. But, this gangster stuff is poison. The paper stated one of the victims had studied criminology, sounded like a good guy. But his real "passion was music as he was inspired by Kanye West, BIG, and Drake". These are ridiculously high aspirations. ANY career is easier than music or sports superstar. And that drug-dealing music video earlier in the thread by Smoke Dawg, how bad was that? Its wrong at every level, although the girl was attractive. So ok, its not black, but its not societal either. Its cultural. The worst part of black culture at the moment.

 

[SunriseChampion]

By your logic spousal abuse is not Male its Societal.

It may not be societal but it sure as hell isn't male.

Women are abusive as well. My ex was an extremely abusive c**** (you can judge me, but that's the most appropriate descriptor).


The fact is that people with rubbish childhoods or rubbish aspects of their childhoods are predisposed to crime or to exhibiting sociopathic and psychotic tendencies.

 

[steveintoronto]

The Black community has to lead on this issue. I am half Black and I am so upset with these fools who complain that life is hard. Life was much harder for me but I did not turn to violence or being a thug. I worked my ass off and I made it.

This post has to be revisited. Juan takes ownership of the problem, even though he's not directly responsible. He's not even indirectly responsible, but due to his racial diversity, he assigns responsibility to the group most affected, both for victims and perpetrators.

It's at least part of the answer. Another player necessary is society at large. I welcome further comment on this from @Juan_Lennon416 .

It's not just shootings and gangs that need attention, at least in addressing their root causes. It's the majority of the same community who are model citizens, but face an incredibly steep challenge to better themselves.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So it’s not ok to ask the simple question, “Who commits crime?”

People commit crimes, not groups. Otherwise, we could round up whatever group you suggest and arrest them for the sin's of other group members

The black community has to lead on what exactly?

There is no black community.

 

[TrickyRicky]

The recent murder uptick is probably statistical anomalous in general.

Crime and violence are almost certainly in decline every decade in the last 50 years and probably still in decline now. The notable difference is that gun violence is more prevalent and unfortunately violent arguments by stupid young men with guns can lead to regrettable and disproportionate outcomes vis a vis just punching each other in the face.

That said a criminal under class will probably always exist and thrive no matter what we do. It’s undeniable that young men in various minority communities some of which we call “black” are disproportionately involved in this criminal under class but let’s not fool ourselves into suggesting that that vacancy would not be filled by others if they did not exist.

That doesn’ t mean we don’t try to solve the problem, it’s just that realistically it’s a complex problem with diminishing returns the more effort we put into it.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Crime and violence are almost certainly in decline every decade in the last 50 years and probably still in decline now. The notable difference is that gun violence is more prevalent and unfortunately violent arguments by stupid young men with guns can lead to regrettable and disproportionate outcomes.

I live in downtown east, and other than seeing the police tape sometimes in the morning, I have no experience with the gun violence in the area. Nor do I fear for my teenage kids or my wife when they're out in the neighbourhood. For the most part, unless a Jane Creba like event occurs, Toronto's gun violence issue is not my problem. Though, wanting to see a better city for all makes it my problem.