Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[Hipster Duck]

Yes, a GO REX system could be up and running immediately...the system could be up and running immediately and things like electrification, more trains, and more stops could be brought in gradually depending on ridership and funds but they don't have to be done before the system is up and running.

Even if those things can be brought about "gradually", I think that it will involve a massive change in infrastructure, rolling stock and operations mentality. None of these things are cheap.

I really don't see how you think that something like this:

Can be turned into something like this

Overnight.

 

[ehlow]

So, a lot of proposed routes seem to have sections going along the current GO rail corridors, for example: http://drlnow.com/googlemap.html

On the west side it goes along the Weston corridor. On the east between Gerrard/Carlaw and the lower don lands it goes along another GO corridor. A lot of future extensions show it continuing NW along the Weston corridor (the one above showing it going all the way to Dixon rd and the airport eventually).

Is there enough room along these corridors for two additional subway tracks? Is it feasible to quickly & cheaply lay down tracks beside the GO & UPX tracks and run subways on them?

Steve Munro seems to suggest tunnelling beneath the tracks in the east: http://stevemunro.ca/?p=8770
Is it still advantageous to follow the GO tracks even when tunnelling? I'm guessing construction is easier?

If there isn't enough room, I wonder if an elevated structure is feasible. Or is it just not worth going along the rail corridor in that case?

 

[innsertnamehere]

there is no real advantage, people just have a fetish of having transit lines follow rail corridors for some reason. if anything it makes station construction much more complicated.

 

[ehlow]

there is no real advantage, people just have a fetish of having transit lines follow rail corridors for some reason. if anything it makes station construction much more complicated.

You mean there's no advantage when tunnelling right? If there's room at-grade, I'm assuming it's much cheaper to use the rail corridor than tunnelling..

 

[waltthizzney]

You mean there's no advantage when tunnelling right? If there's room at-grade, I'm assuming it's much cheaper to use the rail corridor than tunnelling..

why cant we use subways similar to Tokyo... they run at grade on what seems are normal train tracks (electrified). They travel very fast and run every couple minutes.

 

[innsertnamehere]

You mean there's no advantage when tunnelling right? If there's room at-grade, I'm assuming it's much cheaper to use the rail corridor than tunnelling..

yes but there absolutely isn't any room on the rail corridor, its wide enough for 4 tracks and all 4 of those tracks are needed for GO and VIA service. (there are currently 3 tracks on the stretch, but once all day GO is implemented on Stouffville a fourth will be needed)

rail corridors are useful if there isn't major traffic on the corridor already, as you can usually squish 2 transit tracks beside a single freight track (Or in K-Ws case, combine the two), but when the corridor you want to use already has 4 tracks and is heavily used (or in the case of the western portion, 8 tracks), then there is no advantage as it needs to be tunneled.

 

[Palma]

The earliest the Relief Line is opening is 2023.

There has got to be away to fix this. How can other cities build so much in just a short period of time? Is it because their standards are lower? Or because the funding does not come all at once?

 

[ehlow]

There has got to be away to fix this. How can other cities build so much in just a short period of time? Is it because their standards are lower? Or because the funding does not come all at once?

What other cities? What projects?

I'm seeing that the 2nd Ave subway in NYC started construction in 2007 and is projected to open in 2016 so 9 years of construction. Of course, it takes several years before a project is ready for construction.

 

[ehlow]

why cant we use subways similar to Tokyo... they run at grade on what seems are normal train tracks (electrified). They travel very fast and run every couple minutes.

Isn't that essentially the CityRail plan or GO REX?
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/news/2014/01/cityrail-getting-gta-moving

 

[innsertnamehere]

There has got to be away to fix this. How can other cities build so much in just a short period of time? Is it because their standards are lower? Or because the funding does not come all at once?

they don't build it quickly, they have openings in fast succession. It still takes a decade for the subway lines to go from an idea to opening day, its just that they have a constant line of new projects keeping up with growth.

 

[ehlow]

they don't build it quickly, they have openings in fast succession. It still takes a decade for the subway lines to go from an idea to opening day, its just that they have a constant line of new projects keeping up with growth.

That's what I'd like to see in our city, a new line or extension opening every few years. To do that we'd need to keep adding to the 5-10 year pipeline (and not keep cancelling or changing things, so they can actually finish).

 

[BurlOak]

Here is a photo of the Cummer Station without fare integration.

Here is the photo of what Cummer Station could look like with fare integration.

I do not see what takes so long.

As ssiguy says, frequent, all day electrified service can come later.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Fare integration does not create all day 2 way service using DMUs, all it does is further crowd already busy peak GO trains. Fare integration, even if just for peak trains, would require a large purchase of new trains, new train yards, etc. So yes, old cummer very well could look the same, but the infrastructure would still need significant investment.
4

The best we are going to get in terms of fare integration is probably a dropping of the base GO fare (that is any fare within Toronto) to $4ish dollars and getting $0.75 to GO integration with the TTC once PRESTO is fully implemented. $0.75 to GO can probably be implemented in 2016, but the lower GO fare is still a whiles off I think as it would create a significant growth in ridership inside Toronto, something that GO wouldn't be able to immediately absorb. I would expect it to get phased in line by line as AD2W is implemented and the extra peak capacity from that occurs. (for example Stouffville with AD2W is expected to go from 6 peak trains to 13 peak trains, 3 of which short turning at Unionville. This increase would easily be able to absorb a TTC fare integration bump, irregardless of how much growth occurs further north)

 

[ssiguy2]

That station is exactly what I mean.

The upgrades can be brought in gradually as funds become available. In the meantime just let the TTC fare also cover the cost of the GO fare within the city of Toronto, Oshawa already does it.

Will the GO trains become busier, damn straight and isn't that the whole point. Yes some will have to stand but standing on a GO train with fewer stations is a hell of a lot better from what is taking place now namely standing on a packed bus on a bumpy road stopping every 2 blocks only to find that the subway you finally get to is already packed and you are standing another half an hour before you finally get off. I 'd rather stand 20 minutes on a comfortable train than an hour on a bus and subway.

The Western portion of the system with new track and stations is already being built and will be up and running in a year and a half, the TSX-UPX Express.

Also these things should be done well before a DRL even starts construction. Isn't it a better idea to have this up and running and then take the data from ridership, point of origin, destination, and transfers to make a well informed decision on the DRL so that they can choose the best route to ensure the best advantage for the money spent?

 

[nfitz]

What other cities? What projects?

Perhaps the LRT tunnel in Ottawa ... which they were talking about when I was living there in the 1980s. Or perhaps the Line 5 extension to Anjou in Montreal, which they were talking about when I lived there in 1980s (it was even on the subway map on trains for a while). Or the Jubilee line extension in London ... which they were talking about in the 1970s (probably the 1950s and 1960s, but I don't remember that far back!), and opened in the 2000s. Or London Crossrail, which in it's present form dates back to the 1980s. Or the Evergreen Line in Vancouver ... not sure when that started, but the spur for it was designed in the late 1990s, as part of the Millenium line - presumably it was conceived well before then. Even the Canada Line I recall the alignment being debated seriously in 1990 the first time I was out there ... so that's at least 20 years.