Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

denfromoakvillemilton said:
The argument should be that instead of Exibition it should be going across King West to Roncesvalles. Not that it shouldn't be built at all. Miller is wrong here.

Exactly. The original DRL route is fine. Miller is wrong, but Ford invites this type of criticism when he diverts a line to an area that will see tons of condos go up. The line was stopping along Strachan and Dufferin regardless if it was queen or king under the full DRL, so the diversion to Exhibition station is unecessary.
Click to expand...
Except it also goes to Exhibition, which is a major leisure destination that will only grow, and intercepts the busy GO line with likely the most intensive service in the future. Its not just condos . . . though a lot of that is already there?
Rainforest said:
Generally, it is unusual to tweak a subway route so much in order to hit any particular condo cluster. Sure, this is better for the Liberty Village residents, but worse for those who lives or will live at Queen West or Dundas West. Even if the density there is not as high as at Liberty Village today, highrises will surely go up there in the not-so-distant future as the downtown areas continue to gain residents.

...
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call Liberty Village a "condo cluster" there is a massive amount of density there and more planned - not just a handful of towers. Plus again, major transport hub! (And its not that far south of King)
 
Ssmith12 said:
A ROW expansion to long branch was due about two decades ago and would have rapidly quickened development in south Etobicoke. The thing holding it back is the TTC's dedication to maintain four lanes of car traffic along all streets they place ROWS. This would mean massive construction along the whole strip which provoked horror from residents when they first did public meetings in the early 2000's. The second the TTC abandons this idea it opens up drastically better streetcar service along Lakeshore west (and basically every other streetcar line in the city).
Click to expand...
In European cities, they have ROWs with two lanes of car traffic, with grass on the ROW. Some streets allow no private motor vehicles at all (sidewalk and the trams, that's all), though the ROW has cobblestones to allow emergency vehicle access. All parking is prohibited, with pay parking and free delivery zones around the block, away from the ROW.
 
Last edited:
superelevation said:
Except it also goes to Exhibition, which is a major leisure destination that will only grow, and intercepts the busy GO line with likely the most intensive service in the future. Its not just condos . . . though a lot of that is already there?

I wouldn't call Liberty Village a "condo cluster" there is a massive amount of density there and more planned - not just a handful of towers. Plus again, major transport hub! (And its not that far south of King)
Click to expand...
It is just condos and development. The original station (Strachan and King/Queen) would have served the exhibition just fine and not have forced a curve up. Metrolinx got it wrong here, and Ford just went along with it.

It's all water under the bridge now. Let's see how it turns out now.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
It is just condos and development. The original station (Strachan and King/Queen) would have served the exhibition just fine and not have forced a curve up. Metrolinx got it wrong here, and Ford just went along with it.

It's all water under the bridge now. Let's see how it turns out now.
Click to expand...
The new station will also have GO Station transfer.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
It is just condos and development. The original station (Strachan and King/Queen) would have served the exhibition just fine and not have forced a curve up. Metrolinx got it wrong here, and Ford just went along with it.

It's all water under the bridge now. Let's see how it turns out now.
Click to expand...
Exhibition is likely the best positioned location in this area for surface connections, including the Harbourfront and Bathurst streetcars as well as the Dufferin and Ossington buses. The Lansdowne and Queensway buses could be extended/rerouted to the station fairly easily as well, and future integration with Dufferin Loop could also connect the station to the King streetcar and a potential south Etobicoke streetcar service (following the 508 route to Dufferin and turning south). It should also make for a fairly simple diversion for GO or other intercity buses coming from the west. No where else in the West End street grid is nearly as conducive to this, even if walk-in traffic might be higher elsewhere.
 
Absent other constraints, my preference for the OL route west of Yonge would be straight along Queen West, and then up Dufferin and continue north of Bloor to relief the Dufferin transit.

However, given that OL Phase 1 will join the LSW rail corridor and hit the Exhibition GO, it might be a good idea to continue further west within the same rail corridor. That would be a lot cheaper (at-grade extension) than tunneling up Dufferin, and likely much easier to build. In order to continue up Dufferin, the line would have to go from surface to tunnel at the same time as it curves from westbound to southbound.

If OL continues in the rail corridor, then Dufferin could eventually be served by another subway line. Roughly Eglinton to College, then curving towards downtown and crossing the downtown under Dundas, acting as Relief Line 2.

Edit: it should be noted that the Dufferin bus is extremely busy between Eglinton and Queen. South of Queen and north of Eglinton, that bus is well used but not too crowded. Thus, if an underground line covers all or almost of all of that segment, Eglinton to Queen, it will do the job of fixing the Dufferin transit.
 
Last edited:
Rainforest said:
Absent other constraints, my preference for the OL route west of Yonge would be straight along Queen West, and then up Dufferin and continue north of Bloor to relief the Dufferin transit.

However, given that OL Phase 1 will join the LSW rail corridor and hit the Exhibition GO, it might be a good idea to continue further west within the same rail corridor. That would be a lot cheaper (at-grade extension) than tunneling up Dufferin, and likely much easier to build. In order to continue up Dufferin, the line would have to go from surface to tunnel at the same time as it curves from westbound to southbound.

If OL continues in the rail corridor, then Dufferin could eventually be served by another subway line. Roughly Eglinton to College, then curving towards downtown and crossing the downtown under Dundas, acting as Relief Line 2.

Edit: it should be noted that the Dufferin bus is extremely busy between Eglinton and Queen. South of Queen and north of Eglinton, that bus is well used but not too crowded. Thus, if an underground line covers all or almost of all of that segment, Eglinton to Queen, it will do the job of fixing the Dufferin transit.
Click to expand...
For the line to go north on Dufferin St from Exhibition Station will be a bitch to do it so it can go from elevated to underground.

The line has to be underground to Castlefield and be elevated north of it. The line needs to go to Sheppard since this the current split point between routes for Dufferin an where ridership drops off.

Given Dufferin carries over 40,000 riders a day, an RT line on it is well over due. Sadly, most of the board members will be gone if such extension got built and open.
 
drum118 said:
For the line to go north on Dufferin St from Exhibition Station will be a bitch to do it so it can go from elevated to underground.

The line has to be underground to Castlefield and be elevated north of it. The line needs to go to Sheppard since this the current split point between routes for Dufferin an where ridership drops off.

Given Dufferin carries over 40,000 riders a day, an RT line on it is well over due. Sadly, most of the board members will be gone if such extension got built and open.
Click to expand...
One problem with Dufferin Street are the rolling hills and valleys from below Davenport Road (above Dupont Street is we include the railway underpass) to below Eglinton Avenue West.
 
W. K. Lis said:
One problem with Dufferin Street are the rolling hills and valleys from below Davenport Road (above Dupont Street is we include the railway underpass) to below Eglinton Avenue West.
Click to expand...
That is why it has to be underground like I noted. Even having an LRT on the surface is not wise, as it would require all parking on it to be remove and will go over like a lead balloon for those folks on that street.
 
I have slowly become less interested in a Dufferin extension. I think whatever Dufferin gets, it should not be the Ontario Line. The main issue for me is that the OL is driven by connectivity, and Dufferin does not offer as much compared to other options. Furthermore, the street suffers from being mostly fronted by residential north of Bloor. Not what we are looking for, when alternatives have stronger commercial elements to connect. The streets’ demand is also at risk of being absorbed by parallel routes. Very much a wait-and-see situation.

Dufferin RT should be considered alongside the OL, but not as part of it; An LRT or light metro that interchanges with the OL at some point, but preferably does not just dump passengers onto it. Use the OL as intended to improve connectivity. Dufferin will inherently limit how far the OL can go, as the case north of Eglinton is weak as it would be very close to Line 1. Better to go further west and intercept more lines in the process, and serve Dufferin’s local demand with a tailored, more localized service.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top