Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

T3G said:
Considering the glacial pace at which transit expansion gets planned in this city, and the even more glacial pace at which said transit expansion gets built, I'm not convinced any amount of subways is going to come in and bail us out in time. I mean, how long have we been hoping to build the Ontario Downtown Relief Line? By the time anything gets built, it will be far too little, far too late, and more likely than not in completely the wrong place.

Has anyone stopped to wonder whether doubling the city population over 10 years is the best public policy to pursue?

No?

Okay...

By what process would you ensure the "593" would be fast enough to compete as an express and make the whole thing worth investing in in the first place?
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The past does not guarantee the future. The OL in Toronto and the REM in Montreal show that designing and building transit can be fast if given priority. We are in a golden age of transit building in Canada that has not been seen in decades. There is no indication of what is coming next for lines to be built. But I see that governments are not ignoring transit anymore.
 
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NoahB said:
The past doesnt not guarantee the future. The OL in Toronto and the REM in Montreal show that designing and building transit can be fast if given priority. We are in a golden age of transit building in Canada that has not been seen in decades. There is no indication on what is coming next for lines to be built. But I see is that governments are not ignore transit anymore.
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What past? The Eglinton Crosstown debacle is sadly in the here and now.

The Ontario Downtown Relief Line has shown me that talk is cheap. It's one thing to make big, grandiose plans, and quite another to actually make good on them. Remember, it was originally supposed to be done by 2027. The new estimate now is 2031 and we've had very little in the way of construction so far. There is every reason to expect the construction of the DRL is going to be every bit as frought with difficulty as the Crosstown was. The only reason Finch West wasn't is because it's chiefly above ground, and even the numpties at Metrolinx couldn't mess up ground level rail laying that badly.

Metrolinx is the very last entity in the country I would trust with building transit quickly.
 
Ssmith12 said:
What a hag lmao, seems like you need to grow up if you cant handle 'profanity'
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Going by your consistent name calling, it's easy to guess that you are a teenage boy. Once you grow into a man (which I hope you do), you would know that some words are offensive for women and those words are used with derogatory intent towards women. And as you grow, you would also realize that calling people "grandma" or "hag" isn't going to win you arguments.
 
T3G said:
Has anyone stopped to wonder whether doubling the city population over 10 years is the best public policy to pursue?
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Thankfully, this is not policy or projected to happen. It's easy to get carried away with the growth projections. GTA population is projected to grow from 7.1M in 2021 to 10M in 2046. Of that Toronto is projected to grow by one third from 3M to 4M.

Ontario population projections

Learn about the 2021-2046 population projections for Ontario and its 49 census divisions.
www.ontario.ca www.ontario.ca
 
The Ontario government is hoping to contract out the work evolved to "new" companies. These "new" companies will employ new workers at a lower pay and without benefits. That should last until the now experienced workers demand a higher pay and benefits. Then the "new" companies will go out of business, and "new, new" companies take their place. Likely with the same executives and shareholders. And it starts all over again.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The Ontario government is hoping to contract out the work evolved to "new" companies. These "new" companies will employ new workers at a lower pay and without benefits. That should last until the now experienced workers demand a higher pay and benefits. Then the "new" companies will go out of business, and "new, new" companies take their place. Likely with the same executives and shareholders. And it starts all over again.
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Nah, the consortia will bring in foreign workers for specialized work like the tunneling, then they leave after the project is completed. Canada Line had European and Latin American workers for the tunneling.
See:
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
It is just condos and development. The original station (Strachan and King/Queen) would have served the exhibition just fine and not have forced a curve up. Metrolinx got it wrong here, and Ford just went along with it.

It's all water under the bridge now. Let's see how it turns out now.
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The GO station that will see 10s of trains per hour as well as two streetcar routes, the Ossington + Dufferin buses are not "just" condos. . . A big connecting station will drive way more ridership than condos anyways. Look at Warden.

T3G said:
Considering the glacial pace at which transit expansion gets planned in this city, and the even more glacial pace at which said transit expansion gets built, I'm not convinced any amount of subways is going to come in and bail us out in time. I mean, how long have we been hoping to build the Ontario Downtown Relief Line? By the time anything gets built, it will be far too little, far too late, and more likely than not in completely the wrong place.

Has anyone stopped to wonder whether doubling the city population over 10 years is the best public policy to pursue?

No?

Okay...

By what process would you ensure the "593" would be fast enough to compete as an express and make the whole thing worth investing in in the first place?
Click to expand...
What about considering the active decline in the quality of the streetcars? Much of which is in the TTC's hands - the ops are a mess.
 
Oh, I absolutely agree. There are ways to improve the streetcar network at no cost, such as eliminating the silly rules around speeds in intersections.

Perhaps more people would respect the streetcar as a mode of transport if it was faster than it is now. I wonder how many cars they'd save system wide if they let them do some actual speed.
 
superelevation said:
The GO station that will see 10s of trains per hour as well as two streetcar routes, the Ossington + Dufferin buses are not "just" condos. . . A big connecting station will drive way more ridership than condos anyways. Look at Warden.


What about considering the active decline in the quality of the streetcars? Much of which is in the TTC's hands - the ops are a mess.
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The streetcars are new so not sure how they are in decline. The old ones were because they were 40 years old. Yeah, it is just condos, which a stop at Strachan could have served.

This is just a bunch of excuse-making for MX at this point. And given the problems at Crosstown, we have no reason to trust them. Stick to the original plan and tell people the TTC is going too slow, and they couldn't do it.
 
T3G said:
Considering the glacial pace at which transit expansion gets planned in this city, and the even more glacial pace at which said transit expansion gets built, I'm not convinced any amount of subways is going to come in and bail us out in time. I mean, how long have we been hoping to build the Ontario Downtown Relief Line? By the time anything gets built, it will be far too little, far too late, and more likely than not in completely the wrong place.

Has anyone stopped to wonder whether doubling the city population over 10 years is the best public policy to pursue?

No?

Okay...

By what process would you ensure the "593" would be fast enough to compete as an express and make the whole thing worth investing in in the first place?
Click to expand...
Another issue to consider.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
The streetcars are new so not sure how they are in decline. The old ones were because they were 40 years old.
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Transit isn't, and never has been, purely about the rolling stock.

In all ways except for accessibility and air-conditioning, conditions on the streetcar network have markedly gone down hill since the days of the CLRVs (itself a time when conditions were starting to pall - Spadina has been an unbearably slow line for as long as I can remember). Some of this is an unavoidable by-product of having low floor cars (the ride quality on the Flexity is horrifically bad - the vintage cars up at Halton County ride better). Some of this is a consequence of TTC management, such as wider headways, or ridiculous safety rules mandating cars slow down when entering an intersection, stopping to check that the switches are set correctly instead of having signals that will do that for you, etc. These days, riding the streetcar network is a completely miserable experience, old rolling stock or no. We have gone from a mildly okay system that worked only for the able-bodied, to a completely unusable system for all.
 
T3G said:
Transit isn't, and never has been, purely about the rolling stock.

In all ways except for accessibility and air-conditioning, conditions on the streetcar network have markedly gone down hill since the days of the CLRVs (itself a time when conditions were starting to pall - Spadina has been an unbearably slow line for as long as I can remember). Some of this is an unavoidable by-product of having low floor cars (the ride quality on the Flexity is horrifically bad - the vintage cars up at Halton County ride better). Some of this is a consequence of TTC management, such as wider headways, or ridiculous safety rules mandating cars slow down when entering an intersection, stopping to check that the switches are set correctly instead of having signals that will do that for you, etc. These days, riding the streetcar network is a completely miserable experience, old rolling stock or no. We have gone from a mildly okay system that worked only for the able-bodied, to a completely unusable system for all.
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And the fun will only continue when the TTC operates the Finch West LRT. Word is, they plan on implementing many of the same idiotic streetcar rules and procedures to the LRT.

At least the TTC wont be operating the Ontario Line, so they can learn how do things properly for once in their lives and people might just have a chance at getting to their destinations on time without any screw ups along the way.
 
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