Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

denfromoakvillemilton said:
Honestly, I am one of the biggest Eglinton West supporters here. I just want something done on that corridor. I think there are lots of questions, but I think SmartTrack will be very different a year from now. I also agree because we need one crosstown line that does not have a transfer. Bloor Danforth is too far south.
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Ideally we do like other cities across the globe and add a few stations on Eglinton every few years. Gradually make our way towards Pearson.

We aren't like most cities though.
 
WislaHD said:
Ideally we do like other cities across the globe and add a few stations on Eglinton every few years. Gradually make our way towards Pearson.

We aren't like most cities though.
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I disagree. 'A few stations every few years' is the approach which got us into this mess in the first place. Because what would end up happening? The costliest option would be taken (underground heavy rail), 'a few stations' would turn into ten, and 'every few years' would turn into once + never again. The ghosts of Metro Toronto's suburban political dominance and anti-downtown sentiment still haunts the halls of City Hall. If downtown has closely-spaced underground heavy rail service, so to should the far reaches of Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough. If all reports say Light rail should be used, heavy rail would instead be opted for. One station every concession line turns into four. And thirty years later, when reports announce how these 'city-building' attempts proved fruitless, that demand moved elsewhere despite costly rapid transit being in place; politicians will trump experts and proclaim otherwise.

Plus, the city has begun selling all its ample land around Eglinton West. It's already been zoned as unworthy for costly underground heavy rail and will be a spattering of townomes within the decade. Check BuildToronto's site, entire swaths along Eglinton are listed.
 
44 North said:
I disagree. 'A few stations every few years' is the approach which got us into this mess in the first place. Because what would end up happening? The costliest option would be taken (underground heavy rail), 'a few stations' would turn into ten, and 'every few years' would turn into once + never again. The ghosts of Metro Toronto's suburban political dominance and anti-downtown sentiment still haunts the halls of City Hall. If downtown has closely-spaced underground heavy rail service, so to should the far reaches of Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough. If all reports say Light rail should be used, heavy rail would instead be opted for. One station every concession line turns into four. And thirty years later, when reports announce how these 'city-building' attempts proved fruitless, that demand moved elsewhere despite costly rapid transit being in place; politicians will trump experts and proclaim otherwise.

Plus, the city has begun selling all its ample land around Eglinton West. It's already been zoned as unworthy for costly underground heavy rail and will be a spattering of townomes within the decade. Check BuildToronto's site, entire swaths along Eglinton are listed.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: either the city should halt selling off corridor land (across the city, not just along the Richview corridor), or failing that, expropriate and demolish those townhouses when Eglinton West is on the slate.

If the ghosts of Metro's heartless suburban monopoly still roam City Hall, let's at least harness some of their tools to right a great bureaucratic wrong.
 
44 North said:
I disagree. 'A few stations every few years' is the approach which got us into this mess in the first place. Because what would end up happening? The costliest option would be taken (underground heavy rail), 'a few stations' would turn into ten, and 'every few years' would turn into once + never again. The ghosts of Metro Toronto's suburban political dominance and anti-downtown sentiment still haunts the halls of City Hall. If downtown has closely-spaced underground heavy rail service, so to should the far reaches of Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough. If all reports say Light rail should be used, heavy rail would instead be opted for. One station every concession line turns into four. And thirty years later, when reports announce how these 'city-building' attempts proved fruitless, that demand moved elsewhere despite costly rapid transit being in place; politicians will trump experts and proclaim otherwise.

Plus, the city has begun selling all its ample land around Eglinton West. It's already been zoned as unworthy for costly underground heavy rail and will be a spattering of townomes within the decade. Check BuildToronto's site, entire swaths along Eglinton are listed.
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Hence the "We aren't like most cities".

I wonder if any other city deals with the issues you described above.
 
Vancouver did this with the Canada Line.

Two stations along the route were not built but were "roughed in" meaning they left the area open so when they decide to open the stations it won't require any real tunnel work. Basically a concrete cavern was built between the tracks to accommodate a station for some point in the future. Tunnel access, platforms, everything still has to be built but will be cheaper than trying to add the station later from scratch. It costs relatively little to do it but saves money, time, a lot of disruption when they decide to create the station.
 
MrsNesbitt said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: either the city should halt selling off corridor land (across the city, not just along the Richview corridor), or failing that, expropriate and demolish those townhouses when Eglinton West is on the slate.

If the ghosts of Metro's heartless suburban monopoly still roam City Hall, let's at least harness some of their tools to right a great bureaucratic wrong.
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Or we could build Eglinton west as a ROW. Other cities have it in their transit rules to build a km or mile a year.we got into our situation because we didn't build anything for a decade then started to build. We binge construct.
 
ssiguy2 said:
That system will clearly be built first so why not wait till it is and find out what effect it has on ridership? DRL is a hell of a big budget item for what is primarily just a Yonge station by-pass so they should wait til the other services are built to downtown before they embark on a line that they may not even need.
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But the DRL is more than just a Yonge bypass though. There is a definite need to serve the downtown and shoulder areas beyond the current capabilities within these areas.
 
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The DRL should be built continuously with graduated opening phases on the way. It may only need to go up to Eglinton, where the Eglinton LRT could have a split off route that goes up Don Mills, maybe have a split off on the western end too where one route goes up Jane St. And where the underground section is the trunk section for all routes.
 
M II A II R II K said:
It may only need to go up to Eglinton, where the Eglinton LRT could have a split off route that goes up Don Mills, [...] And where the underground section is the trunk section for all routes.
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This raises a novel idea of a long continuous Eglinton-Don Mills-Sheppard East run. Though, making a sensible connection Don Mills <-> Sheppard East is almost certainly prohibitive. They'd have to scrap the subway platform transfer for one.
 
Markster said:
This raises a novel idea of a long continuous Eglinton-Don Mills-Sheppard East run. Though, making a sensible connection Don Mills <-> Sheppard East is almost certainly prohibitive. They'd have to scrap the subway platform transfer for one.
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Should bloody well do that anyway. Shoving all Sheppard LRT into a single track permanently limits terminal operations for both modes. The only way this makes sense is as a trojan horse to convert to LRT all the way to Yonge post Crosstown (and with a view to extension along Sheppard West)
 
WislaHD said:
Ideally we do like other cities across the globe and add a few stations on Eglinton every few years. Gradually make our way towards Pearson.

We aren't like most cities though.
Click to expand...

44 North said:
I disagree. 'A few stations every few years' is the approach which got us into this mess in the first place. Because what would end up happening? The costliest option would be taken (underground heavy rail), 'a few stations' would turn into ten, and 'every few years' would turn into once + never again. The ghosts of Metro Toronto's suburban political dominance and anti-downtown sentiment still haunts the halls of City Hall. If downtown has closely-spaced underground heavy rail service, so to should the far reaches of Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough. If all reports say Light rail should be used, heavy rail would instead be opted for. One station every concession line turns into four. And thirty years later, when reports announce how these 'city-building' attempts proved fruitless, that demand moved elsewhere despite costly rapid transit being in place; politicians will trump experts and proclaim otherwise.

Plus, the city has begun selling all its ample land around Eglinton West. It's already been zoned as unworthy for costly underground heavy rail and will be a spattering of townomes within the decade. Check BuildToronto's site, entire swaths along Eglinton are listed.
Click to expand...

MrsNesbitt said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: either the city should halt selling off corridor land (across the city, not just along the Richview corridor), or failing that, expropriate and demolish those townhouses when Eglinton West is on the slate.

If the ghosts of Metro's heartless suburban monopoly still roam City Hall, let's at least harness some of their tools to right a great bureaucratic wrong.
Click to expand...

WislaHD said:
Hence the "We aren't like most cities".

I wonder if any other city deals with the issues you described above.
Click to expand...

I agree with Wisla and MrsNesbitt here. 44 your also somewhat right, but you mentioned could be solved with education of the populace and showing the costs of subways to them over and over. Right now, the rest of Toronto is against Sheppard East and Bloor Danforth.

No we are not like any other city. Other cities have delays, but not the civil wars we have over rapid transit.
 
Markster said:
This raises a novel idea of a long continuous Eglinton-Don Mills-Sheppard East run. Though, making a sensible connection Don Mills <-> Sheppard East is almost certainly prohibitive. They'd have to scrap the subway platform transfer for one.
Click to expand...

Wow, I actually really like this idea.

I am almost near certain that the central portion of Eglinton will have greater demand than anticipated. This can be dealt with by increasing the frequency through the central portion by interlining the Crosstown with a Sheppard-Don Mills route. Half of trains through the central portion can originate from Eglinton East, and the other half on Sheppard. This is actually quite similar to the current bus route situation on Eglinton where buses from Lawrence, Leslie, Laird and Flemingdon Park all accumulate through the central portion of Eglinton East, increasing frequency where it is needed most.

Build the DRL to Eglinton-Don Mills and all those Sheppard riders would take the Sheppard line down to Eglinton and transfer on to the DRL. This would actually provide REAL relief to the Yonge line!

I'm sold. Someone make a map in the Fantasy Map thread. :D

Edit: Got excited, made one myself. :D
 
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Just as the Yonge subway replicated/replaced the (over capacity) Yonge streetcar line, and the Bloor subway replicated/replaced the (over capacity) Bloor streetcar line, it seems to me that the most obvious option is to have the DRL simply follow the (over capacity) 504 streetcar line. South from Broadview station, west on Queen/King to Bathurst, then eventually up Roncesvalles to Dundas West station.
 
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