Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

I'm not sure about this being the DRL route. I think an LRT should be tried, especially if ridership is dead north of Carlton. As for cosburn station. If it is pape then it will be used well. Donlands will be lightly used, but Donlands alignment is closer to Greenwood Yard.
 
WislaHD said:
Never have I ever considered a subway at the Brickworks. :p


That is admittedly not my ideal route. For starters, I would've used the Castle Frank routing (with displeasure towards the loss of parklands), and Thorncliffe station is in the land of big box stores far away from walking distance of those super dense residential towers. Ideally we can hit Flemingdon Park on the way to the Eglinton-Don Mills station as well.
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Those are not "big box stores" near that Thorncliffe station I proposed. Nothing but scrubby hydro corridor, and decaying manufacturing (aka prime development potential). And 'the Castle Frank routing'? You mean that nonexistent idea tossed out during Transit City, and revived by some guy running for councillor? I don't think it's feasible in any way. There are homes that would be close to the portals through Rosedale Valley, which are housed by wealthy NIMBYs whom undoubtedly have a lot of sway. Interestingly, that particular section of Bloor dips south on account of century-old NIMBYism.

This would then be followed by a third portal with the line exiting the valley wall and doing a miraculous flyover of Bayview Ave (a highway), then curving back, to join (what I presume you mean) is the active Richmond Hill corridor.

And there would be no subway station at the Brickworks. I even omitted stations at Bayview and Laird, which would have significantly higher ridership than a park/small office building. And Flemingdon Park is well within the catchment of Don Mills station.
 
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44 North said:
So I made a design which hits all the areas Gweed mentioned. It utilizes the Don Branch of the <strike>Bala Sub</strike> Belleville Sub and a redesigned Half-Mile Bridge from just north of Broadview station to about Laird Dr. Although the route looks a bit wonky, it is more direct than if it were to somehow use the Richmond Hill line. East of Thorncliffe Park station the line descends underground below a hydro corridor and uses another bridge to cross the West Don River, before reentering the valley and intersecting with Don Mills station.

Three large bridges, a significant portion running in the open air, shallower stations, Leslieville and south East York not served... Clearly there are pros and cons. But are there cost savings? Is it realistic? Would NIMBYs be opposed? Who knows.

Edit: Perhaps what I'm calling the "Bala Sub" is actually referred to as the Don Branch or Leaside Spur or Havelock Line. And I guess Metrolinx has looked at this particular routing as its mentioned here: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/reliefstudy/YRNS_Long_List_for_Consultation_EN.pdf
Double Edit: Yes, fucked it up. It's the Don Branch of the Belleville Sub. I believe Metrolinx does own it.
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Very interesting alignment. The southern section looks pretty much exactly like I had imagined it. However, in the Don Valley section, rather than ascending and using the rail corridor, I think a better alignment would be to continue along the floor of the valley (or close to it), and use the cliff below the intersection of Milwood and Overlea as a natural tunnel portal (much like the portals on either side of Broadview Station) to go directly under Overlea, cut across to around the hydro corridor, surface onto a bridge over the West Don, and then run cut and cover to Eglinton & Don Mills. That way, as others have mentioned, you hit Thorncliffe Park directly instead of being off to the side of it.

Good looking map though! I like the tilted aerial look.
 
Thank you for the compliment. It means a lot. I got a copy of Inkscape months ago, but couldn’t figure out the Bezier Curves function until I set to work on this routing. And I’m a fan of oblique aerial imagery, and thought using a stitched-together composite of BingMaps’ “bird’s eye” would give the viewer a better understanding of this area than plain GoogleMaps and its dated, flat, low-res satellite images.

I’d like to use the currently-abandoned Don Branch line because Metrolinx owns it, and it keeps gradients fairly level – just north of Broadview it sits well above the valley floor allowing for a seamless flyover connection. Yes, it does look a bit silly to have a NE-SW line deviating to such an extent, or missing key density nodes. But the slight addition of track length is made up for in my opinion.

I believe that ‘using the valley floor’ is much easier said than done. It’s a floodplain which happened to experience two Fifty Year flooding episodes just last year...a month apart! Where the GO Train got bogged down was just west of the Half Mile Bridge. Much of the valley floor section of a DRL would have to be built on embankments, or viaducts. What’s more is that this viaduct/guideway/embankement would have to rise above or avoid: valley pinch points, a meandering river, DVP and its embankments, emergency snow-dumping sites, a freight line/GO corridor, as well as current infrastructure facilities.

As for entering the valley wall through a portal near Millwood/Overlea; yes that does seem an optimal location. But below that site is the North Toronto Sewage Treatment plant. And from my experience mountain biking on the single-track trails along the valley walls, there are several large storm drains and sewage lines hiding just below the surface. This might prove difficult to bridge and tunnel.

What got me to considering this routing is my knowledge of this stretch of valley and its unique peculiarities. I’m aware of the problems with lost ridership potential and ignored density nodes, and that I’m essentially cheapening the eastern branch of the DRL. But at the same time I know that significant cost savings can be found by going above-ground and utilizing a spacious and abandoned rail corridor.

Not to mention, the rider experience in these open sections would be phenomenal!
 
Jennifer Keesmat tweeting:

https://twitter.com/jen_keesmaat/status/513702364709416960
If we keep our foot on the pedal for Relief Line work we have underway, it will be open in about 15 years.
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https://twitter.com/jen_keesmaat/status/513702961059733504
In the meantime, automatic train control, an $800 million upgrade, will increase subway capacity by 25% in 2 yrs. You'll notice the change.
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If true, that's not as many years in the future as I had thought.

https://twitter.com/jen_keesmaat/status/513704713481887745
We are targeting to have a short list of alignment options for the Relief Line complete by early spring. My Transit Unit is busy on this.
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It should be interesting to see the alignment options in spring.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
ehlow, I think 15 years is unacceptable. The Scarborough Line will have been open for 10 years at that point.
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I'm just quoting what the Chief Planner said ;).

For me, it makes alternatives that can be completed faster more attractive, like GO RER theoretically, or improving streetcar service to be faster or better.

If it's really 15 years or likely more, then it's difficult for me really to care about DRL. Sure I want it to happen and want to see it get started, but it seems like it won't affect my life anytime soon.
 
Does it really need to take 15 years? Planning work on Ottawa's downtown LRT began in 2008 and completed in 2011, bidding started in 2011, the contract was awarded in December 2012, construction began in the summer of 2013 and its projected to open by spring 2018 (and it's currently ahead of schedule so it may open in the winter of 2017-18 instead). A total process time of 10 years from where the DRL is at now (a proposal with a very rough conception of routing) to opening. Couldn't the DRL involve a similar length of time? I get that it's a more complicated project as Toronto's core is more built out and has more complex geology, but it still seems like a while. Can't we set, say, 12 years as the goal?
 
sixrings said:
Well Eglinton has completed EAs and construction has started and it is still 6 years away from opening. Based on Eglinton I think Jennifer is just being realistic.
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Well in fairness Eglinton was spread out because of the province and then affected by political delays

ehlow said:
I'm just quoting what the Chief Planner said ;).

For me, it makes alternatives that can be completed faster more attractive, like GO RER theoretically, or improving streetcar service to be faster or better.

If it's really 15 years or likely more, then it's difficult for me really to care about DRL. Sure I want it to happen and want to see it get started, but it seems like it won't affect my life anytime soon.
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And that's the problem. If people see 15 years, then why even care about the DRL. Are we really going to build the Scarborough subway and push B-Y to critical mass?
1overcosc said:
Does it really need to take 15 years? Planning work on Ottawa's downtown LRT began in 2008 and completed in 2011, bidding started in 2011, the contract was awarded in December 2012, construction began in the summer of 2013 and its projected to open by spring 2018 (and it's currently ahead of schedule so it may open in the winter of 2017-18 instead). A total process time of 10 years from where the DRL is at now (a proposal with a very rough conception of routing) to opening. Couldn't the DRL involve a similar length of time? I get that it's a more complicated project as Toronto's core is more built out and has more complex geology, but it still seems like a while. Can't we set, say, 12 years as the goal?
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Agree. It should be open 2023 honestly. 8 years from Jan 1 2015.
 
ehlow said:
I'm just quoting what the Chief Planner said ;).

For me, it makes alternatives that can be completed faster more attractive, like GO RER theoretically, or improving streetcar service to be faster or better.

If it's really 15 years or likely more, then it's difficult for me really to care about DRL. Sure I want it to happen and want to see it get started, but it seems like it won't affect my life anytime soon.
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I promise I don't say this in an insulting way but you are 19. I am 35. I don't think I'm a genius in comparison to what I was at 19 BUT the one thing I know which feels more and more true as I get older is that time flies. Every year it seems to pass quicker. All of a sudden pensions and retirement are in my thoughts.. a DRL 15 years away is something to care about. I mean I care about it and by the time im50 the likelihood of me riding it is next to nothing.. but my kids will ride it.
 
sixrings said:
I promise I don't say this in an insulting way but you are 19. I am 35. I don't think I'm a genius in comparison to what I was at 19 BUT the one thing I know which feels more and more true as I get older is that time flies. Every year it seems to pass quicker. All of a sudden pensions and retirement are in my thoughts.. a DRL 15 years away is something to care about. I mean I care about it and by the time im50 the likelihood of me riding it is next to nothing.. but my kids will ride it.
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Um.. what a strange thing to say. Why do you say I'm 19? That's incorrect.. Maybe the way I write is not mature enough ha ha.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Well in fairness Eglinton was spread out because of the province and then affected by political delays
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Just can't see how the DRL will avoid getting hit by political delays. Sheppard subway has been stopped indefinitely because of political delays. Transit city didn't get off the ground because of political delays. Eglinton has been on the table for over 20years and the younger extension has been waiting to go for years. It is inevitable that this thing will hit a delay. All massive projects get slowed down along the way
 
sixrings said:
Got you confused with Wisld???? The other guy from younger and Eglinton.
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Oh I see, no problem.

Anyways, I get your point that it's for the next generation (and us when we're much older). At the same time, I feel that in addition to long term transit improvements like the DRL we should also be focused on medium term (5-10 years), like hopefully GO RER, and shorter term improvements.

At least we're at a point now where transit projects, some major, some minor, should be completing every year or two from now on.
 
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