Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

I agree which is why I think we should keep on extending both finch and Eglinton. It costs relatively little money to continue extending them and it makes the city feel like we are continually building. LRTs can be built at the same time as subway or smart track. It shouldn't be a either or situation.
 
sixrings said:
Just can't see how the DRL will avoid getting hit by political delays. Sheppard subway has been stopped indefinitely because of political delays. Transit city didn't get off the ground because of political delays. Eglinton has been on the table for over 20years and the younger extension has been waiting to go for years. It is inevitable that this thing will hit a delay. All massive projects get slowed down along the way
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Very true, but Eglinton was supposed to open in 2016. If the DRL is the number one priority, they we should find a way to get it done before 2030. This is why John Tory is winning, because SmartTrack looks like it will solve a pile of problems.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Very true, but Eglinton was supposed to open in 2016. If the DRL is the number one priority, they we should find a way to get it done before 2030. This is why John Tory is winning, because SmartTrack looks like it will solve a pile of problems.
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SmartTrack has it's own set of problems. I can see the eastern portion built as there shouldn't be much issues there. However, the western portion has a lot of issues past Eglinton. I don't even see the point of his western turn towards Mississauga. It's better to extend the Eglinton LRT west than it is to extend Smart-Track. I would say Smart-Track should go to Pearson as an alternative to the expensive UPX service.

There is still the question of how Tory will fund it since the Province is investing in RER, which is similar but not exactly the same as SmartTrack. To me, I would abandon Smart-Track and work with Province to prioritize the 2 lines he has and work to make the fare lower in Toronto to encourage more local travel within Toronto.
 
sixrings said:
Got you confused with Wisld???? The other guy from younger and Eglinton.
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Hi. :)

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Put me in the same boat as others when it comes to the length of these projects. Just the other week I was looking at Warsaw's close-to-opening Line 2. Line 2 was funded for and began construction in 2010, and it is set to be completed and ready for testing on Sept. 30 of this year. A 6.5km, 7 station, completely underground Metro line that goes under Warsaw's downtown and under one of the biggest rivers in Europe that makes the Don river look like a joke in comparison, all completed in 4 years. Poland isn't China, it shouldn't take us 15 years to construct the DRL.
 
WislaHD said:
Hi. :)

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Put me in the same boat as others when it comes to the length of these projects. Just the other week I was looking at Warsaw's close-to-opening Line 2. Line 2 was funded for and began construction in 2010, and it is set to be completed and ready for testing on Sept. 30 of this year. A 6.5km, 7 station, completely underground Metro line that goes under Warsaw's downtown and under one of the biggest rivers in Europe that makes the Don river look like a joke in comparison, all completed in 4 years. Poland isn't China, it shouldn't take us 15 years to construct the DRL.
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Hi, just think the 15 year time frame is a realistic time frame. It shouldn't take that long but Eglin ton and finch shouldn't have taken as long and Sheppard should be complete by now. I would like it completed in 10 years as well but I also wish Eglin ton would be done by 2016.
 
WislaHD said:
Hi. :)

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Put me in the same boat as others when it comes to the length of these projects. Just the other week I was looking at Warsaw's close-to-opening Line 2. Line 2 was funded for and began construction in 2010, and it is set to be completed and ready for testing on Sept. 30 of this year. A 6.5km, 7 station, completely underground Metro line that goes under Warsaw's downtown and under one of the biggest rivers in Europe that makes the Don river look like a joke in comparison, all completed in 4 years. Poland isn't China, it shouldn't take us 15 years to construct the DRL.
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We have anti-transit folks and NIMBYs who would raise an uproar trying to stop it, unfortunately.
 
lead82 said:
SmartTrack has it's own set of problems. I can see the eastern portion built as there shouldn't be much issues there. However, the western portion has a lot of issues past Eglinton. I don't even see the point of his western turn towards Mississauga. It's better to extend the Eglinton LRT west than it is to extend Smart-Track. I would say Smart-Track should go to Pearson as an alternative to the expensive UPX service. .
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The Mississauga Transitway could be a bigger ridership generator than Pearson. Apparently Renforth is expected to see 2,500 Eastbound riders in AM peak hour, and a lot of those seem to continue on the 427 towards (I assume) Kipling. If you provided good interchange w/SmartTracks, MT/GO ridership currently bound for Kipling would have a much quicker route into downtown.

I have a hard time imagining a Pearson stop could ever produce as much ridership. Peak travel to Pearson is only 5,000/hour for the entire region across all modes, the bulk of which would presumably not take a train. From what I recall, the ECLRT's extension to Pearson was shown to have very low ridership, though that was slower and less useful than a RER service would be.

Depending on how both services evolved, the combination of SmartTracks and the Transitway could provide an alternative of sorts to expanding GO's Milton Line, which from what I gather is challenging. The train should always have higher travel speeds, but the bus/RER combo should have better frequencies and be easier to access for most people (e.g. UTM->Renforth Gateway->downtown). Service to Pearson could also be accommodated by building a people mover to Renforth.

The Georgetown corridor north of Lawrence until Pearson is also mostly in industrial areas, which would minimize ridership at intermediate stations like Kipling or Islington.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
ehlow, I think 15 years is unacceptable. The Scarborough Line will have been open for 10 years at that point.
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That's 2029. Which Scarborough line? The Sheppard East line opens in 2020 or so, I guess you mean that one. The Danforth subway extension was predicted to take 10 years, and they haven't actually started any studies yet since it was approved in 2013.
 
nfitz said:
That's 2029. Which Scarborough line? The Sheppard East line opens in 2020 or so, I guess you mean that one. The Danforth subway extension was predicted to take 10 years, and they haven't actually started any studies yet since it was approved in 2013.
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The Bloor Danforth extension is what I am talking about. Which is supposed to open in 2023 if the start date was last year. Even if it opens in 2025, that's stilll 4 years before the DRL. Unacceptable.
lead82 said:
SmartTrack has it's own set of problems. I can see the eastern portion built as there shouldn't be much issues there. However, the western portion has a lot of issues past Eglinton. I don't even see the point of his western turn towards Mississauga. It's better to extend the Eglinton LRT west than it is to extend Smart-Track. I would say Smart-Track should go to Pearson as an alternative to the expensive UPX service.

There is still the question of how Tory will fund it since the Province is investing in RER, which is similar but not exactly the same as SmartTrack. To me, I would abandon Smart-Track and work with Province to prioritize the 2 lines he has and work to make the fare lower in Toronto to encourage more local travel within Toronto.
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Honestly, I am one of the biggest Eglinton West supporters here. I just want something done on that corridor. I think there are lots of questions, but I think SmartTrack will be very different a year from now. I also agree because we need one crosstown line that does not have a transfer. Bloor Danforth is too far south.
 
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sixrings said:
Hi, just think the 15 year time frame is a realistic time frame. It shouldn't take that long but Eglin ton and finch shouldn't have taken as long and Sheppard should be complete by now. I would like it completed in 10 years as well but I also wish Eglin ton would be done by 2016.
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Unfortunately I agree that it's realistic. Spadina extension started in 2008, so if it completes in 2017 that's 9 years of construction, not including pre-construction work.

With the DRL they are years away from choosing an alignment and getting funding, then years of design & other work before construction starts. Once construction starts it seems reasonable to assume at least 8-10 years.

That's why when people say "Yonge-Bloor is crowded, therefore we need DRL"... well, can you wait 10-15 years? If not, we need other solutions in the meantime.
 
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15 years? And that's probably for the Pape to St Andrew option. Preposterous.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm shilling my own proposal here, but from Leaside to Gerrard we have a transit corridor, and it just happens to be abandoned (Don Branch of the Belleville Sub). A rapid transit route that utilizes this corridor hits the spots that are needed: Eglinton/Don Mills, B/D east of Yonge, and an underground section that intercepts surface routes.

Perhaps it's tool-ish to do so, but I'm going to repost my map. In the blank spaces I put photos to remind transit aficionados that transit infrastructure needn't be so complex and costly. Kipling Station...a surface section running right next to a freight and commuter line. Keele Station...a small box servicing an elevated section. Old Mill...a concrete viaduct. Riverdale Park...a perfect launch location for tunneled sections.

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This, added with a refit of UPX (conversion to LRT, addition of two stations) gives us a complete DRL. Costs are halved, complexity and scope is halved...it works. I've read people dismiss it because 'it doesn't hit current density nodes'. Big whoop. King/Queen St managed it for the last century. A change from the commonly-accepted routing isn't the end of the world; particularly if it means a DRL actually gets financed and built in our lifetimes.
 

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I still think the DRL should wait.

Electrified GO/RER/Smartrax is a definite "go" and if the section in the Toronto city is every 10 minutes and regular GO train or RER become fare integrated, which I think is inevitable as most understand this is the reason why Torontonians don't take it, then it could have a substantial impact on ridership on all lines but especially Bloor-Danforth east of Yonge.

If one or all of those lines come on stream which one of them will before any DRL, they could really reduce the amount of traffic coming in from Scarborough. If the service is convenient, fast, and finally affordable ridership at Kennedy headin g downtown could plunge as taking GO/RER/STRAX becomes the best way to go. A Smartrax will also have stops probably at Gerrard/Pape area so a lot of ridership coming down Don Mills and heading to Bay & Bloor in the morning will bypass Pape station at continue on the bus for a couple blocks to the Smartrax/RER station.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the DRL isn't needed and it should have been built decades ago but there is a new reality. The province, and I think correctly, is choosing to bring in more regional rail a la GO express of Smartrax or whatever the hell you want to call it, and at a minimium full fare integration and possibly just TTC fares which means ridership from Scar to downtown could drop to near nil as express would be far, far faster for the same price. If the service and fares are both there then Danforth could become more of just an east/west line for Scarberians than a way to get downtown/work.

That system will clearly be built first so why not wait till it is and find out what effect it has on ridership? DRL is a hell of a big budget item for what is primarily just a Yonge station by-pass so they should wait til the other services are built to downtown before they embark on a line that they may not even need.
 
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