Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[Uncle Teddy]

Well when a big part of the city is hanging around Muskoka I guess that's what happens. Hopefully we see some progress when the election season is finally behind us.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Adding the 7th train car and ATC sounds great on paper, but to count on it to provide enough capacity is highly optimistic, given the forementioned issues with the stations AND how a simple delay can essentially cripple the entire line. That kind of system breaking delay is already happening with alarming regularity -and it's only going to get worse when you put more riders on the line.

Sometimes you really can't cheap out.

AoD

 

[M II A II R II K]

The DRL can open in phases, so long as there's continuous expanding of it and the finished sections are open for business. As for Spanishizing the Bloor/Yonge station, unless it's converted over a long weekend there's no way that can be closed for any amount of time.

The Yonge station downstairs can be Unionized so a south platform would prompt have the passengers further down to start off with.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm not sure the province would want to sink that much money ($10+ billion?) into that big of a "phase one" DRL, but this is such a high-profile project that the feds may want to be a part of it.

As for the city contributing, don't hold your breath. The province is showing almost all the initiative on the DRL, and city is half asleep.

8.3 billion for Dundas West to Eglinton Don Mills. Phase 2 would be Dundas West to Weston and Eglinton to Sheppard. That won't cost more then 2 billion. Phase 2 would be part of the 2024-2031 part too.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And plus that would be money worth spending, as opposed to 1 Billion for a Fairview Mall line.

 

[ehlow]

Depending on the route & stations, DRL could also heavily relieve or even replace the King streetcar and improve service for all the condos along King street.

It could make places that are difficult or slow to get to by transit currently much easier.

Whether it's needed now or later, if it's started now it won't be done for 15 years anyways.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The DRL can open in phases, so long as there's continuous expanding of it and the finished sections are open for business. As for Spanishizing the Bloor/Yonge station, unless it's converted over a long weekend there's no way that can be closed for any amount of time.

The Yonge station downstairs can be Unionized so a south platform would prompt have the passengers further down to start off with.

And plus that would be money worth spending, as opposed to 1 Billion for a Fairview Mall line.

Agreed mark. I think Eglinton Yonge should be spanish solution too as they are doing it right now but "lack of foresight!"

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

For all the discussions around the Spanish solution, I'd be curious to find out what the transfer loads we're talking about at those stations and the ridership of the lines proper.

It's a good way to design a station - it is not an argument for putting all your ridership in a single basket.

AoD

 

[dunkalunk]

8.3 billion for Dundas West to Eglinton Don Mills. Phase 2 would be Dundas West to Weston and Eglinton to Sheppard. That won't cost more then 2 billion. Phase 2 would be part of the 2024-2031 part too.

I don't understand the need to bring the DRL to Weston along the existing rail corridor which will be getting 15 minute (minimum) GO REX

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The DRL can open in phases, so long as there's continuous expanding of it and the finished sections are open for business. As for Spanishizing the Bloor/Yonge station, unless it's converted over a long weekend there's no way that can be closed for any amount of time.

The Yonge station downstairs can be Unionized so a south platform would prompt have the passengers further down to start off with.

I don't understand the need to bring the DRL to Weston along the existing rail corridor which will be getting 15 minute (minimum) GO REX

Connectivity. In fairness GO REX is a campaign promise at this point. And the high fares for GO.

 

[ksun]

I wonder how a "spanish solution" will solve any of Toronto's transit problem.

Toronto's transit problem is 1) there is only one line that brings people to where they need to go during peak time (downtown below Queen st), 2) it takes too long for people to get anywhere in the city that's not directly on the subway line.

Making Yonge/Bloor more specious, separating the entering/exiting passengers, or even adding an additional car aren't close to solving the problem. The same number of passengers will still depend on that single line that is already over-capacity. The only sensible solution is to have a new line that bring people downtown directly without going through Yonge/Bloor from where the demand is.

From what I can see, building subways will only get more expensive, probably 3X faster than inflation. Yet we are still trying to find cheap ways to move people without building a damn thing? In 10 years, the financial difficulty related to subway building will only look dimmer.

 

[gweed123]

Connectivity. In fairness GO REX is a campaign promise at this point. And the high fares for GO.

To be fair, so is the DRL at this point. Both are campaign promises with a few preliminary studies to back them up. For all we know, they could end up being one and the same.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I wonder how a "spanish solution" will solve any of Toronto's transit problem.

Toronto's transit problem is 1) there is only one line that brings people to where they need to go during peak time (downtown below Queen st), 2) it takes too long for people to get anywhere in the city that's not directly on the subway line.

Making Yonge/Bloor more specious, separating the entering/exiting passengers, or even adding an additional car aren't close to solving the problem. The same number of passengers will still depend on that single line that is already over-capacity. The only sensible solution is to have a new line that bring people downtown directly without going through Yonge/Bloor from where the demand is.

From what I can see, building subways will only get more expensive, probably 3X faster than inflation. Yet we are still trying to find cheap ways to move people without building a damn thing? In 10 years, the financial difficulty related to subway building will only look dimmer.

It all goes back to real estate. If prices go down, so will construction costs.

To be fair, so is the DRL at this point. Both are campaign promises with a few preliminary studies to back them up. For all we know, they could end up being one and the same.

True. I would like that, but then again this is Ontario.

 

[ShonTron]

Click if you like, but Royson James seems to have a hate-on for the Downtown Relief Line. He again brings up Michael Schabas' Neptis review, which has a historically inaccurate and flawed solution of running GO trains between Danforth and Union Station to provide "relief" and promotes ICTS and Tory's SmartTrack plan. He also claims offering free TTC rides during the early morning would magically shift travel patterns and allow the Yonge Line to be extended to Richmond Hill.

So a subway line in the densest, busiest, most congested part of the city is too expensive, but a subway extension to Richmond Hill is needed (with a GO Train line that parallels it?)

Riiiiiggght.

Royson James, I think, is going to shill for John Tory for the rest of the campaign season and subject Toronto Star readers with more horsecrap.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...e_problems_for_citys_transit_hopes_james.html

 

[diminutive]

He also claims offering free TTC rides during the early morning would magically shift travel patterns and allow the Yonge Line to be extended to Richmond Hill.

It's a bit unfair to claim it's relying on 'magic,' congestion pricing is a fairly well established field of research and evidence suggests it works.

(EDIT: Actually, the claim that consumers respond to shifts in prices is one of the most universally accepted concepts of economics, which almost anyone would agree with nowadays. Downward sloping demand curve and such. Do you have any reason for dismissing the premise that consumers would respond to price changes by rearranging their behavior, given that's been the case everywhere else?)

Singapore did this (free travel before peak hours) and found that 7% of commuters shifted out of peak hours. If similar shifts happened in Toronto, it would more or less solve the supposed capacity issues on the Yonge line, which could significantly delay hugely capital intensive projects like rebuilding Yonge n Bloor or (some versions of) the DRL.

I wouldn't go so far as to say congestion pricing eliminates the need for a new transit line downtown, but I think any new transit should be targeted at inducing new riders, not simply redirecting Bloor-Danforth riders. That was one of the big issues with the DRTES; most of the DRL riders were just BD riders saving 2-5 minutes, which doesn't do much for generating rider travel time savings.