Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

denfromoakvillemilton said:
Sometime you have to bite the bullet. Plus the fact the whole line is crucially need now, not in 10 years or 5.
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Why is the whole line crucially needed? The crowding issues west of Yonge aren't anywhere near as bad as they are east of Yonge. I'd say that the only part of the line that is "crucially needed" is Pape to King, mainly to deal with the Bloor-Yonge situation.
 
jje1000 said:
The question of whether or not the line will be built as a whole phase or just a single portion (or even at all), rests almost entirely on the provincial government being elected next week.
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I agree. I can see nothing being done if Hudak gets in.
innsertnamehere said:
Remember, the DRL isn't needed for another 15ish years.The signal upgrades on Yonge will deal with capacity issues until then.
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nfitz said:
I assume that's sarcasm ...
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No, the TTC has actually said that. In fact they are the ones pushing the 100 second train thing, as if that will do anything other then be a bandaid for the issues in the system.

TheTigerMaster said:
Why is the whole line crucially needed? The crowding issues west of Yonge aren't anywhere near as bad as they are east of Yonge. I'd say that the only part of the line that is "crucially needed" is Pape to King, mainly to deal with the Bloor-Yonge situation.
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Because of connectivity. We need to think beyond building something only when it gets really bad. The DRL to Sheppard and Weston (later on) provide a second north south line, takes pressure off Yonge and "opens up" the city. Same with Eglinton West, the Finch West LRT, the Sheppard whatever, etc. Multiple transfer points get people away from Bloor Yonge and Eglinton Yonge.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
No, the TTC has actually said that. In fact they are the ones pushing the 100 second train thing, as if that will do anything other then be a bandaid for the issues in the system.
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They have said such stuff in the past; back when they were also talking of having to start the DRL by 2018. I believe they've stopped saying that.

I'm assuming that innsertnamehere was being sarcastic.
 
Nope, the signalling system is supposed to be able to absorb ridership growth up until the early 2030's.

The Yonge extension absorbs 100% of the growth immediately however, so it depends on context. If it weren't for capacity constraints the Yonge extension would probably be the highest priority extension for the TTC, but it needs the DRL first.
 
nfitz said:
They have said such stuff in the past; back when they were also talking of having to start the DRL by 2018. I believe they've stopped saying that.

I'm assuming that innsertnamehere was being sarcastic.
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innsertnamehere said:
Nope, the signalling system is supposed to be able to absorb ridership growth up until the early 2030's.

The Yonge extension absorbs 100% of the growth immediately however, so it depends on context. If it weren't for capacity constraints the Yonge extension would probably be the highest priority extension for the TTC, but it needs the DRL first.
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Now my question is why are we even building the DRL if we can gets extend capacity by adding a subway car here and a new signal there.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I agree. I can see nothing being done if Hudak gets in.



No, the TTC has actually said that. In fact they are the ones pushing the 100 second train thing, as if that will do anything other then be a bandaid for the issues in the system.



Because of connectivity. We need to think beyond building something only when it gets really bad. The DRL to Sheppard and Weston (later on) provide a second north south line, takes pressure off Yonge and "opens up" the city. Same with Eglinton West, the Finch West LRT, the Sheppard whatever, etc. Multiple transfer points get people away from Bloor Yonge and Eglinton Yonge.
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The connectivity is nice, but it isn't "crucially needed". I'd love to see the whole line built, but that's not my priority.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Now my question is why are we even building the DRL if we can gets extend capacity by adding a subway car here and a new signal there.
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Because we can't. Improving signalling doesn't let you run that many more trains, because you simply can't load and unload people any faster at Bloor-Yonge. It only can increase capacity much, if you manage to stop so many people trying to transfer at Bloor-Yonge.

At best it uses up the latent demand. I doubt it can handle the extra traffic generated by the Eglinton line.

Johnny Au said:
...and it is cheaper to convert Bloor-Yonge to Spanish solution (even with modifying the foundations of the surrounding buildings) than it is to construct the DRL.
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Perhaps ... but you also have to completely rebuild the platforms at Dundas, King, and Queen to handle more people. And do you really want to spend $1 billion+ and have nothing to show for it but an extra platform at Bloor-Yonge?
 
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Johnny Au said:
...and it is cheaper to convert Bloor-Yonge to Spanish solution (even with modifying the foundations of the surrounding buildings) than it is to construct the DRL.
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Right.
TheTigerMaster said:
I believe the #1 reason is the Bloor-Yonge situation. #2 is that we'll be running into capacity issues again a few decades from now.
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TheTigerMaster said:
The connectivity is nice, but it isn't "crucially needed". I'd love to see the whole line built, but that's not my priority.
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My priority is both. It's getting people home on time and it's getting people out of their cars. Not to get them a seat, but to open up the city. It's a major problem that you need a car to get to some parts in 2014.
nfitz said:
Because we can't. Improving signalling doesn't let you run that many more trains, because you simply can't load and unload people any faster at Bloor-Yonge. It only can increase capacity much, if you manage to stop so many people trying to transfer at Bloor-Yonge.
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Right. It's a band aid. And the line will just fill up again after these upgrades.

At best it uses up the latent demand. I doubt it can handle the extra traffic generated by the Eglinton line.

Perhaps ... but you also have to completely rebuild the platforms at Dundas, King, and Queen to handle more people. And do you really want to spend $1 billion+ and have nothing to show for it but an extra platform at Bloor-Yonge?
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So then we need to do more then a St Andrew - Pape stub. The new pressure points should be Pape-Danforth and Eglinton-Don Mills.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So then we need to do more then a St Andrew - Pape stub. The new pressure points should be Pape-Danforth and Eglinton-Don Mills.
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Depends what your objective is. You'll provide more relief to Bloor-Yonge to build Queen to Pape for ... what $2 billion compared to $1 billion? So that's the province's decision point. After that, extending further east or north, or building any stations between Pape and Queen, is a different issue ... and the cost shouldn't be used in comparing to the cost of rebuilding Bloor-Yonge, etc.
 
Want a longer Dundas West-Eglinton "phase one" DRL? Then get the feds to contribute.

Otherwise, let's take what we can get.
 
nfitz said:
Depends what your objective is. You'll provide more relief to Bloor-Yonge to build Queen to Pape for ... what $2 billion compared to $1 billion? So that's the province's decision point. After that, extending further east or north, or building any stations between Pape and Queen, is a different issue ... and the cost shouldn't be used in comparing to the cost of rebuilding Bloor-Yonge, etc.
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I can agree to that, but that's why my objective is building as much as we can now. It makes sense to me that we do that we actually can not only provide relief, but be ready to absorb new riders.

GenerationW said:
Want a longer Dundas West-Eglinton "phase one" DRL? Then get the feds to contribute.

Otherwise, let's take what we can get.
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The province and city can do dundas west - eglinton don mills with the revenue tools. The question is will they?
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
The province and city can do dundas west - eglinton don mills with the revenue tools. The question is will they?
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I'm not sure the province would want to sink that much money ($10+ billion?) into that big of a "phase one" DRL, but this is such a high-profile project that the feds may want to be a part of it.

As for the city contributing, don't hold your breath. The province is showing almost all the initiative on the DRL, and city is half asleep.
 
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