Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[rbt]

I love how everyone is building the relief line to Sheppard, Finch and beyond - even before the OL contract has been signed to bring it to Bloor (let alone to Eglinton)

Considering the massive challenge in Sydney to extend PPP commuter rail, it is worth considering before the tender goes out what expansion might occur prior to the maintenance/operations contract ending and how that might be priced as an option into the contract.

 

[nfitz]

What's going to change along that stretch of Don Mills and Leslie in the next 25 years? There's almost no opportunity for infill for most of its length and YRT route 90 has abysmal ridership. The TTC has several dozen bus routes with more riders.

Who's to say it would go up Leslie and Don Mills? TTC was looking at several options north of Eglinton and Sheppard, including one that ended up near the Yonge and 407.

It will take at least 25 years before an OL's extension north of Sheppard would be studied.

It certainly won't be built soon. But given they've already studied the Downtown Relief Line north of Sheppard, I'd be surprised if there's no studies of the Ontario Line before 2045. If there's one thing Toronto is good at is studies.

 

[Coolstar]

It certainly won't be built soon. But given they've already studied the Downtown Relief Line north of Sheppard, I'd be surprised if there's no studies of the Ontario Line before 2045. If there's one thing Toronto is good at is studies.

Source? Haven't heard of any studies of the Relief Line extending past Sheppard.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Source? Haven't heard of any studies of the Relief Line extending past Sheppard.

The Ontario Line is basically the merger of the original heavy rail Relief Line and the proposed light rail Don Mills LRT (which as to eventually reach the Sheppard Line and Steeles Avenue in phases).

 

[TossYourJacket]

It's also worth noting though that Metrolinx was studying two corridors as part of RL North that both went to Don Mills and Eglinton. One on Don Mills from Eglinton to Sheppard, and one went over to Victoria Park.. So it's still possible that any OL extension could go up Victoria Park (especially since the province wants to extend the Sheppard Line).

 

[superelevation]

Yea I'll believe that when I see it. PSD's are always one of the first things to get canned as a "Cost cutting measure" and it seems every time we build something the penny pinchers come out of the woodwork. Given the current financial situation of the province moving forward I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Conservatives begin looking for ways to "save money" on these types of projects. As well Vancouver shows you don't need PSD's for fully automated lines, so the precedent is there. I would like PSD's on all the subway lines but it never happens because nobody wants to spend any money on anything more then the bare essentials.

If its part of P3 which seems to be the plan they won't be dropped as they would be part of the deliverable spec.

Both the RL and OL have flaws. In the case of the OL, it doesn't go past Exhibition and frankly it there is no plan to get to Dundas West and Mt Dennis. On the east, what the plan to get to Don Mills and Sheppard, and beyond? The rolling stock change is a huge waste of money.

Ah yes lets duplicate service on the corridor we are spending hundreds of millions on to provide high quality GO service

The only limitation is the capacity of OL itself. Since it is being built to about 2/3 of the Yonge's capacity, it might become more crowded than Yonge if extended sufficiently far.

Its not? Again capacity is > 30,000 ppdph, comparable to the Yonge Line pre ATC (and from the looks of it ATC is not gonna be increasing capacity that much). I am not surprised that people think the OL is some major downgrade when people are going around talking about how the capacity is 2/3 etc

I understand why elevation is happening. In Vancouver, it is much better to have a elevated system due to the risk of earthquakes. Montreal has to also do with their desire to go with a rubber tire metro. This makes any extension more expensive because it needs to be underground.

1) Vancouver does not build above ground due to earthquakes, this is the second time I have heard this and its totally incorrect. Look at Tokyo, do they have risks for earthquakes? Pretty sure they have plenty of subways.
2) Montreal could go elevated, it would just require more willpower than we have in Canada

 

[Rainforest]

Its not? Again capacity is > 30,000 ppdph, comparable to the Yonge Line pre ATC (and from the looks of it ATC is not gonna be increasing capacity that much). I am not surprised that people think the OL is some major downgrade when people are going around talking about how the capacity is 2/3 etc

Trains being 2/3 the size, translates to approx 2/3 in capacity. Yonge pre ATC may have same capacity as OL with ATC. But Yonge can be retrofitted with ATC and go into the 40-45k range: that kind of boost cannot happen for OL.

 

[micheal_can]

Trains being 2/3 the size, translates to approx 2/3 in capacity. Yonge pre ATC may have same capacity as OL with ATC. But Yonge can be retrofitted with ATC and go into the 40-45k range: that kind of boost cannot happen for OL.

Can the stations be extended in the future? Can longer trains be used in the future?

 

[nfitz]

Source? Haven't heard of any studies of the Relief Line extending past Sheppard.

The city and TTC's Relief Line North study that the Conservatives cancelled after being elected.

There's a 31-page thread devoted to it starting in April 2018, when the six options were announced. Most fascinating was Option 3 that took over the Richmond Hill GO line just north of Don MIlls and Lawrence.

Ontario Line North of Eglinton (was Relief Line North) (Speculation)

I went to the Relief Line North Public meeting, hosted at York Mills Collegiate last night. About 50 people were there, and I'd estimate that half were representatives from the TTC, City of Toronto or Metrolinx. A 20 minute presentation that outlined the background and corridor options was...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[NoahB]

The city and TTC's Relief Line North study that the Conservatives cancelled after being elected.

There's a 31-page thread devoted to it starting in April 2018, when the six options were announced. Most fascinating was Option 3 that took over the Richmond Hill GO line just north of Don MIlls and Lawrence.

Ontario Line North of Eglinton (was Relief Line North) (Speculation)

I went to the Relief Line North Public meeting, hosted at York Mills Collegiate last night. About 50 people were there, and I'd estimate that half were representatives from the TTC, City of Toronto or Metrolinx. A 20 minute presentation that outlined the background and corridor options was...

urbantoronto.ca

The image you shared only shows the lines being studied until Shepherd... (except option 1, which goes non stop from Shepprered-Bayview to Yonge-Finch) The arrow at the end of each route is to roughly show the orientation of track for future extensions.

Notably, and more relevant to this thread, the Ontario Line follows option 3/4 exactly. In other words, the Ontario Line has an existing study it can use for extending to Shepperd.

 

[nfitz]

The image you shared only shows the lines being studied until Shepherd... (except option 1, which goes non stop from Shepprered-Bayview to Yonge-Finch) The arrow at the end of each route is to roughly show the orientation of track for future extensions.

I didn't share it, it was posted in the Relief Line North thread over 2 years ago.

Not sure your point there, they made it clear that they were studying the following north of Sheppard stations locations: Finch/Yonge, Old Cummer, Finch/Don Mills, Finch/Victoria Park, Steeles/Dons Mills and Steeles/Victoria Park. That's for at least 4 different options. The study area extended to Steeles.

My point was simply to refute that no one would be studying this area for another quarter-century.

Notably, and more relevant to this thread, the Ontario Line follows option 3/4 exactly. In other words, the Ontario Line has an existing study it can use for extending to Shepperd.

How? The Doug Ford and the Conservatives put an end to it a few months later, and forced the city and TTC to stop the study, before they'd finished evaluating the options, let alone complete a study.

 

[kamira51]

The city and TTC's Relief Line North study that the Conservatives cancelled after being elected.

There's a 31-page thread devoted to it starting in April 2018, when the six options were announced. Most fascinating was Option 3 that took over the Richmond Hill GO line just north of Don MIlls and Lawrence.

Ontario Line North of Eglinton (was Relief Line North) (Speculation)

I went to the Relief Line North Public meeting, hosted at York Mills Collegiate last night. About 50 people were there, and I'd estimate that half were representatives from the TTC, City of Toronto or Metrolinx. A 20 minute presentation that outlined the background and corridor options was...

urbantoronto.ca

A subway stop outside of Sunnybrook hospital sure would be nice.

 

[NoahB]

I didn't share it, it was posted in the Relief Line North thread over 2 years ago.

Not sure your point there, they made it clear that they were studying the following north of Sheppard stations locations: Finch/Yonge, Old Cummer, Finch/Don Mills, Finch/Victoria Park, Steeles/Dons Mills and Steeles/Victoria Park. That's for at least 4 different options. The study area extended to Steeles.

My point was simply to refute that no one would be studying this area for another quarter-century.

How? The Doug Ford and the Conservatives put an end to it a few months later, and forced the city and TTC to stop the study, before they'd finished evaluating the options, let alone complete a study.

I don't disagree with you on the 'studying for another century' part. I am only pointing out details that you seem to have missed.

The Relief Line North study was under Metrolinx. Whatever the Ford Gov stopped the Relief Line North study was stopped by name only. As you can see from the OL station locations, the results of the RLN study simply moved to the Ontario Line, albeit as a truncated version that is now part of the first phase of the project.

As for all the stations on finch/steels you mention, they are not shown on the image you shared. They are not on any of the Relief Line North documents I know of. Mind sharing where you found them?

Yes, the study area goes all the way to Steeles. But that is only to study the network/ridership effects and possible future extension routes.

 

[Isotack]

When you don't like something...no matter what...study it!

 

[nfitz]

I don't disagree with you on the 'studying for another century' part. I am only pointing out details that you seem to have missed.

The question asked was where was it studied. Not sure what details you were looking for, but they are in that thread.

As for all the stations on finch/steels you mention, they are not shown on the image you shared. They are not on any of the Relief Line North documents I know of. Mind sharing where you found them?

Read that thread ... page 3 or 4 shows all those locations in an image. I'd be shocked if they weren't also on Steve Munro's site.