Toronto One Bloor East | 257.24m | 76s | Great Gulf | Hariri Pontarini

And yes, the laymen...be careful what you wish for, since they could very well chose what, French Quarter as the paragon of excellence. What then? Or do you mean laymen who are like you? In that case, just how is it different from the so called ivory tower you accuse of dictating good taste? At least they have gone through the training to get there.

If one *really* wants to talk about wasting the potential of the site, it should be whether it is better to save it (reality notwithstanding) for higher value usage (e.g. Class A office) first, instead of the design of the structure. I don't see anyone raising this issue recently.

AoD
 
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buildup said:
If I were an architect I'd be demoralized and disgusted at half of these responses. Perhaps concluding that an attractive but conventional design like 4Seasons, Shangra-Lai, Trump or Aura is more suitable for Toronto at this point.
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Well, of course... no one likes to hear harsh criticism of their work. That is just human nature. I would take issue with the list you have supplied of "conventional" designs... each of those buildings brings something new and has received its own criticism (perhaps 4 Seasons was most well received of them as well as the most conventional) In any case when you work in a field that is in the public eye you must learn to expect criticism. "Half of the responses" seem to feel that the design does not live up to expectations for this much acclaimed site and that the design is gimmicky rather than dignified. It tries to pass for original and curvy while being infact highly derivative and merely a dressed up box. Why shouldnt we state those opinions? Because we should spare the architects feelings? Really? Remember that for all us whiners there are an equal number who are acquiesced to whatever is offered. ( the name calling can go both ways)

It will be interesting to see how the design review panel reacts to this, seeing as they forced the Bazi's proposal to undergo various changes as did Aura...
 
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I agree, I didn't realize that architects were 'untouchables'... I mean, if you can't take the heat then stay at home and have fun with your lego blocks, no? I for one am happy for the dialogue here. People do have expectations and so they should.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
If one *really* wants to talk about wasting the potential of the site, it should be whether it is better to save it (reality notwithstanding) for higher value usage (e.g. Class A office) first, instead of the design of the structure. I don't see anyone raising this issue recently.

AoD
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Design is more relevant to the general public who will not be connected with what happens inside the tower. It's no surprise that everyone has been talking about the renderings recently. Office tower or residential, it's the design at this visible location that matters immensely.
 
In all of this hoopla of criticism, I find many people forget or are simply ignorant of the process through which building design occurs. The architect for a project is a client of the developer. The architect does not get free reign to design whatever he wants. Part of the challenge for the architect is to try to explain to the client, and try to convince them, in the most polite, diplomatic ways possible, to not do something, or to do something else. In the end, it is the client who is constantly reviewing the progress of the architect's design, and making comments and requests (demands). The client will say, no I don't like that, no I don't want that, how about we do it this way, I want something like this. And the architect has to oblige, or he gets fired.

GG is not receiving enough blame from those who are dissatisfied with the design.
 
Yeah, from the look of the rendering we've seen, it looks as though Great Gulf is using every square inch of the site for this project. Trying to maximize the profit they will lock in on this property flip.
 
Traynor said:
Wouldn't it be cool if the architects and developers of N1B actually read and followed threads like this and were using the forumers as a focus group to test out their first design? They would read all the positive and negative views of this first render and be able to use those opinions to further shape their final design....

Obviously this would fly in the face of true architecture experts, who feel we laymen and 'public opinion' have no place in design, despite the fact that we are stuck looking at it for the rest of our lives. Perhaps having taste dictated to us by the select few, is the lot in life for lowly surfs.
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I think you mean 'serfs'.
 
"each of those buildings brings something new"

For the record, I like 4Seasons, Aura, Trump, Shangra-Lai as well executed imposing buildings. But what is "new" about any of them aside from their size? Why do they get a free pass, whereas 1BE is help to a higher standard?
 
What?

Why would developers ever consider using the forums to test responses to their profects? We can't even agree with what we like half the time. It would be a nightmare for them.
 
Buildup - I guess in the end we are just voicing our subjective opinions on all these buildings. Not really sure why the defenders have to get all emotional about it. I know in several other projects I've been supportive of the design while others have criticized it. You (who like it) can take the same comfort here as I did in those cases... the building is likely going ahead as proposed. You can celebrate it all you want and enjoy its rise on the skyline. The rest of us will be left shaking our heads, dreaming of what we would have liked to see... but life goes on.
 
tkip said:
Why would developers ever consider using the forums to test responses to their profects? We can't even agree with what we like half the time. It would be a nightmare for them.
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Are you serious? You think everyone in a focus group magically has the same opinion? That would be pointless. That's what they are for... To get various opinions, find the flaws, work out the kinks, get a fresh viewpoint... etc...

And I'm beginning to think that all those who are vehemently defending this design are, in fact, undercover Great Gulf employees.

I have nothing against someone liking the design. That is there opinion and they are entitled to it, but only someone who has a vested interest in its construction would take the disliking of it so personally.
 
You realize of course

That I was using some humour describing why coming to forums and trying to get useful feedback would be problematic at best. Half of us always seem to be completely opposed to what the other half likes about a design.


Traynor said:
Are you serious? You think everyone in a focus group magically has the same opinion? That would be pointless. That's what they are for... To get various opinions, find the flaws, work out the kinks, get a fresh viewpoint... etc...

And I'm beginning to think that all those who are vehemently defending this design are, in fact, undercover Great Gulf employees.

I have nothing against someone liking the design. That is there opinion and they are entitled to it, but only someone who has a vested interest in its construction would take the disliking of it so personally.
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While I am somewhat in agreement with the difference of opinions and personal preferences and tastes, it's still a stretch to suggest that people wanting to be this to be built is due to them being secretly employed by the developer.

But I will assume that this wasn't meant to be take seriously.
 
Traynor said:
Are you serious? You think everyone in a focus group magically has the same opinion? That would be pointless. That's what they are for... To get various opinions, find the flaws, work out the kinks, get a fresh viewpoint... etc...

And I'm beginning to think that all those who are vehemently defending this design are, in fact, undercover Great Gulf employees.

I have nothing against someone liking the design. That is there opinion and they are entitled to it, but only someone who has a vested interest in its construction would take the disliking of it so personally.
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Are YOU serious? God I hate it when people on this site accuse people who have different opinions to them of being 'undercover' employees or they must have a 'vested interest' just because they don't happen to share your view. Reading through this thread I would say your comments are far more emotionally loaded and reactive than most other people who have contributed. By your logic can we then assume you work for Daniels or some other developer?
 
I'm not a Great Gulf toady. And I'm not that deeply offended by the design. And I don't even find it all that "80s retro", either--no more so than, say, the Met...
 
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