Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

TOareaFan said:
How much did the Lakeshore communities contribute to the upgrades on their corridor?
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Bulk of the ridership are not from the local communities, especially Clarkson where they are from the northen area.
 
drum118 said:
Stream lining of a system where you don't have to change twice on the same route, less management, better use of resources, a network, better service 7 days a week just a few things.
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Shouldn't the discussion, then, be about merging all of the transit systems into one?

drum118 said:
The LRT is not an over price or expensive since it does a number of things. It drives development a lot faster with a higher return on the investment.
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Where would that development be on this line?

drum118 said:
It offer a smother ride with more space. You can set a headway of 5-10 minutes today and it will not change for at least 20 years since you are starting out with one car and add 2 more as needed over time. You need to add more buses and personnel to match that increase of ridership while the LRT is adding no personnel and only equipment.

The real big different between buses and LRT is operation cost.

Even though a BRT can be built cheaper than an LRT, it cannot beat the cost of operating the line as an LRT over a 30 year life cycle.

Using 5,000 riders from a single point that started off at 2,000 over 30 years, an LRT will save $250m in both operation cost as well maintenance and replacement cost. This does not take into consideration the cost of fuel as it is impossible to say what it will be over the course of the 30 year cycle.
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Is 2,000 the starting point....today? Is 5,000 a reasonable number?

drum118 said:
In 2010, I did a spreadsheet using the current cost of MT new buses as well TTC buses, current MT wage cost, LRT cost and used X riders. I them determine the number of vehicles that would be be required to move X riders from a single peak point. I then used standard 40', 60' double deck hybrid buses as a well an LRT to determent the number of vehicles would be required to move X riders to get the headway. Using 3% for increase of ridership as well wage cost over 30 years along with 1% in capital cost, you start to see changing numbers for everything. As ridership increase, headway fall as well requiring more vehicles. If I follow the headway of the buses, you were seeing a bus every 30 seconds at the end of 30 years and that not going to happen without major problems. On the LRT side I looked at the different between using 1, 2 or 3 cars to the point after 30 years, you were seeing a 3 car train every 3 minutes.

I have never finalize this spreadsheet nor got around to adding in more info since 2010 and one of my many do items. The numbers don't lie nor did I try to skew things like a lot of consultants do to the point it has been backup by a peer review of planners and consultants around the world.

LRT is the way to go period even though parts of the corridor will never meet LRT numbers in the first place. TTC Subway system already shows that today after 40 years of service.
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Which parts? What percentage of the corridor will never meet LRT numbers?
 
I personally think that Burlington Transit would benefit greatly from a merger with HSR, mainly due to the already high number of buses which travel between them.
 
drum118 said:
Bulk of the ridership are not from the local communities, especially Clarkson where they are from the northen area.
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I guess I should have said municipalities.......it was just suggested (not for the first time) that Brampton should contribute cash to upgrade its GO line....i was wondering how much of the upgrades to the Lakeshore line came as direct contributions from those municipalities.
 
doady said:
Probably nothing. Which is why I am baffled at your opposition to the LRT (a local service) in favour of GO Train upgrades (a regional service).
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I think improved GO train service will serve more people in Brampton at a much lower Going forward cost. The LRT will serve very few Bramptonians at a much higher cost.

I am baffled by your suggestion that Brampton should,uniquely, spend local dollars upgrading a GO corridor.
 
TOareaFan said:
I think improved GO train service will serve more people in Brampton at a much lower Going forward cost. The LRT will serve very few Bramptonians at a much higher cost.

I am baffled by your suggestion that Brampton should,uniquely, spend local dollars upgrading a GO corridor.
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Yes, only the LRT would funded by Brampton, because it is a Mississauga-Brampton thing, while the Kitchener GO Train service is a provincial thing. So please explain to all of us how cancelling this LRT benefits the Kitchener GO Train that it would connect to, if Brampton is not going to spend money on upgrading GO Train service anyways.
 
TOareaFan said:
I thought the discussion was about merging Brampton and Mississauga Transit into PeelTrans.....sorry if I got that wrong.
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You had said "What would we gain from a merger?" to a post that discussed both Peel and Halton merger.

The same holds in Peel though. I assume that Caledon still doesn't have any bus transit? A merger would then require Peel (presumably) to service other parts of Peel that are current not serviced.
 
doady said:
Yes, only the LRT would funded by Brampton, because it is a Mississauga-Brampton thing, while the Kitchener GO Train service is a provincial thing. So please explain to all of us how cancelling this LRT benefits the Kitchener GO Train that it would connect to, if Brampton is not going to spend money on upgrading GO Train service anyways.
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Your confusing me (not that hard to do so not a source of pride)......all I have said is that Metrolinx (a provincial agency) has prioritized this LRT far higher than all day service......in my opinion (from a Brampton perspective) the actual need is reversed and far more people will benefit from all day bi-directional GO.....so if I had my way the City of Brampton should withdraw any support for the LRT until the full GO Train service is implemented.

To be honest, I am not sure what you are saying/asking
 
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dunkalunk said:
I personally think that Burlington Transit would benefit greatly from a merger with HSR, mainly due to the already high number of buses which travel between them.
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Good in theory, but difficult to implement in practice. Peel and Halton can merge their operations because they share a single upper tier government (same taxpayer). Unless Burlington were to leave Halton and join Hamilton (which would be possible if Hamilton were to de-amalgamate and return to it's constituent municipalities), I don't see that as being very likely.

Of course, if everything is under the Metrolinx umbrella, municipal borders are practically meaningless. In that case, bus routes could run across the Hamilton-Burlington border seamlessly.

nfitz said:
You had said "What would we gain from a merger?" to a post that discussed both Peel and Halton merger.

The same holds in Peel though. I assume that Caledon still doesn't have any bus transit? A merger would then require Peel (presumably) to service other parts of Peel that are current not serviced.
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I don't believe Caledon does have bus service. And yes, you're right, merging them would service those communities. Can you imagine what bus service would be like between Newmarket and Richmond Hill if everything wasn't under YRT/VIVA? It would be a disjointed mess.
 
TOareaFan said:
I think improved GO train service will serve more people in Brampton at a much lower Going forward cost. The LRT will serve very few Bramptonians at a much higher cost.
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I think that all-day GO service on the Kitchener line is a great thing to have, but I don't think that sacking the LRT will magically move all-day GO service up the priority list; in fact, it might actually move it down since we lose a rapid transit connection in Brampton, and the LRT line could have been a substantial feeder route for GO trains.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We might just end up with nothing.
 
Hipster Duck said:
I think that all-day GO service on the Kitchener line is a great thing to have, but I don't think that sacking the LRT will magically move all-day GO service up the priority list; in fact, it might actually move it down since we lose a rapid transit connection in Brampton, and the LRT line could have been a substantial feeder route for GO trains.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We might just end up with nothing.
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This LRT is not going to feed any significant increase in ridership to the KW GO trains over current Zum and local business service.......quite the opposite, if you had all day GO and then built an LRT you might pick up LRT riders from the all day GO
 
TOareaFan said:
This LRT is not going to feed any significant increase in ridership to the KW GO trains over current Zum and local business service.......quite the opposite, if you had all day GO and then built an LRT you might pick up LRT riders from the all day GO
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I think the two would have a symbiotic relationship. The LRT would convince more people to take GO, because parking at Brampton station is so limited, and all-day GO would convince more people to take the LRT, since getting to downtown TO is now easier, and a viable option compared to driving.

Both would see an increase in ridership over the current service regardless, but together they would see a much greater increase than either would just on their own.
 
gweed123 said:
I think the two would have a symbiotic relationship. The LRT would convince more people to take GO, because parking at Brampton station is so limited, and all-day GO would convince more people to take the LRT, since getting to downtown TO is now easier, and a viable option compared to driving.

Both would see an increase in ridership over the current service regardless, but together they would see a much greater increase than either would just on their own.
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Where is the LRT delivering riders to Brampton GO from?
 
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