TOareaFan
Superstar
And how many more do we expect the LRT to deliver than the current public transit options?
I would say "not many more"
And how many more do we expect the LRT to deliver than the current public transit options?
I would say "not many more"
Evening
New Member
im pretty dissappointed with all the Brampton folks here saying they dont want the LRT. I live in the Bramalea area and the LRT would mostly be useless to me and definately all-day GO train service would be better for me but from what I can see, having the LRT expand to Brampton GO, we gain a very important local rapid transit connection to the whole of Mississauga. Our zum line does this already but with LRT, there would be no more worrying about traffic delays and you get much more comfortable commute as well. Also, just the presence of an LRT line would just be further acceleration of our city's fast evolving transit system, help the intensification of downtown development and would make downtown Brampton into a major transit hub in the GTA -- with connections to the Queen BRT, Hurontario LRT, and the GO Train. Us oppposing this would and succeeding in that would be a huge defeat for transit in Brampton. In a few years after the LRT is complete, Im sure we will start complaining and asking for an extension if the LRT is completed only to the Brampton border.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I think there is only one Brampton folk opposing the LRT......but I still think that I am right and that it is an overbuild and overspend and a poor job of prioritization!
ShonTron
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There's a few in the old Town of Brampton area on Main Street South, but it's not just Brampton: the part of Hurontario south of the QEW in the Mineola and Port Credit areas of Mississauga that aren't happy either.
I think that the LRT is a big win for Brampton, even if it is only 6-7 kilometres. East Brampton is getting the Queen Street BRT ROW. The LRT will link the high-potential Kitchener Line with Square One and Port Credit, making it easier for Mississauga residents to get to K-W and Guelph, K-W residents to Mississauga. Network-wise it's a big deal.
I think that the LRT is a big win for Brampton, even if it is only 6-7 kilometres. East Brampton is getting the Queen Street BRT ROW. The LRT will link the high-potential Kitchener Line with Square One and Port Credit, making it easier for Mississauga residents to get to K-W and Guelph, K-W residents to Mississauga. Network-wise it's a big deal.
Transportfan
Senior Member
I think the reason residents of these areas don't want the LRT is because the preffered option is losing a traffic lane on Hurontario/Main for the LRT because of the selected options chosen by transit fans who attend these PIC's in droves, therefore giving a false impression of what most residents actually want.
Jasonzed
Senior Member
LRT comes to the Square
TOareaFan
Superstar
^it's coming to Brampton too.
http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/cityhall/article/1616825--lrt-vehicle-downtown-this-week-next
Interesting that it goes on display from Wednesday the 15th to Wednesday the 22 but will not be on display during the long weekend...you know, the time when most people might have time to go look at it.
http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/cityhall/article/1616825--lrt-vehicle-downtown-this-week-next
Interesting that it goes on display from Wednesday the 15th to Wednesday the 22 but will not be on display during the long weekend...you know, the time when most people might have time to go look at it.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
What about the Town of Caledon? Its part of Peel Region, but without public transit of its own. Shouldn't the LRT at least stop at the border with Caledon, to allow for any future north extension?
TOareaFan
Superstar
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Thanks for the photos, Jason.
We're transit enthusiasts and we can understand this. The average person, on the other hand, couldn't read this without their eyes glazing over. Bombardier might want to get somebody to pump out a list of the LRV's features that doesn't sound so technical or jargony. Families with children who attend this event probably don't care about the technology of the bogies (unless they can explain it at a level that children can understand), and something like 30,000 PPHPD is meaningless to a non-engineer unless you can compare it to what the existing bus capacity.
LRT comes to the Square
We're transit enthusiasts and we can understand this. The average person, on the other hand, couldn't read this without their eyes glazing over. Bombardier might want to get somebody to pump out a list of the LRV's features that doesn't sound so technical or jargony. Families with children who attend this event probably don't care about the technology of the bogies (unless they can explain it at a level that children can understand), and something like 30,000 PPHPD is meaningless to a non-engineer unless you can compare it to what the existing bus capacity.
Evening
New Member
But the LRT would deliver much more attractive and reliable service than the current Zum line. Currently we have express GO buses that go to and from each GO train station and Union but people obviously want all day train service because the train is a much more attractive and reliable service, the same goes for the LRT. The GO train connects people to Union in a better way while this LRT will connect people to Mississauga in a better way.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I'll take this bit first, the question you responded to was quite specific and narrow in focus. It had been suggested that this LRT is necessary to deliver people to the Brampton GO station without cars given how short the parking situation is there. I wondered where these people are coming from and how many more would be attracted to take public transit to the Brampton GO as opposed to the currently available public transit. If you travel south of the GO station on Hurontario you don't see any residential until south of Wellington....pretty low density/high income stuff and for a good chunk of it pretty walkable....even if they were not willing to walk to the GO is the pickup in speed/efficiency of the LRT versus Zum? Is that where the riders who will feed into the Brampton GO station will come from? I don't think so.
You don't see any density until you get further south.....across the street from the old Brampton Mall there are a couple of apartment buildings (well, across Main and then across a parkette/creek...but kinda on Main(is)....is this where they are coming from? How many? A better question is...how many of them are finding that 6 minute (timed from Shoppers World) Zum ride to the Brampton GO station sooo inconvenient that all they are waiting for to convert to public transit is a shiny LRT that can do the journey in, what, 4 minutes? 3 minutes? Is that the threshold?
And that is pretty much it......you go through a bit of retail, a cop station and a courthouse and "bamb" you are at the 407.
Where are these people coming from that are going to feed into the Brampton GO station once the LRT is built but are not doing it now? Then the obvious follow up......whatever portion of the $1.6B cost of this line is in the Brampton section of it.....is that (considering all of the other transit needs in the region) worth prioritizing over?
It is a near analogy but not quite. All I have been saying is that the number 1 priority for transit in Brampton is all day two way GO train service. Not that other transit is not good but in setting priorities this is number 1. Compared to the LRT it serves far more people in Brampton than the LRT ever will (it diagonally disects the city from the south east to the northwest and is easily connectable to most Bramptonians either by car or by any number of local and Zum bus connections.
On a go-forward basis, it is also deliverable at a much lower cost.....yet Brampton is continually told they will have to wait until some undefined date to get this service. My suggestion was, simply, if Metrolinx wants/needs its LRT that has minimal value to Brampton so badly ....then implement the all day 7 day 2 way GO service first.
If the value (as some have suggested) to this LRT getting to Brampton GO station is from a network/connectivity point of view....how is that value affected by the key part of that network not operating at all on 28% of the days and on the other 72% only operating during peak times.?
The priorities are all wrong...but, hey, its only $1.6B.
Evening
New Member
Oh, Im sorry about that. I didn't actually see the original question. In that case, you're absolutely correct. LRT will attract some people in south Brampton near the LRT corridor to take it to Brampton GO but I doubt it would result in a surge in demand.
Your second response is also pretty accurate. For Brampton, all day GO service is a bigger priority than the LRT because more Bramptoners are going to Toronto than Mississauga and we already have alot of connections to Mississauga. But the LRT is a top priority for Mississauaga. Do we really want to force them to cut the LRT off at the border out of spite for our transit project being lower on the list? In a few years, we will be clamouring for that LRT to be expanded.
Im gonna try and make another analogy: If York Region ran its viva blue BRT route all the way down through downtown Toronto, Im sure they wouldn't (and shouldn't) oppose a subway expansion even if it is just a "stub" to Richmond Hill Centre. Again, I see the analogy is flawed because here Im talking about a connection to Toronto while in our case its a less important connection to Mississauga but it would be funny to see York Region oppose such a plan until they got all day GO service on their lines that cover alot more of York Region
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TOareaFan
Superstar
The increase will be barely noticeable.
It is not out of spite it is out of a sense of what is needed and how to best allocate the available dollars. I am not sure the LRT is needed in Mississauga or will deliver the sort of ridership that Metrolinx projects (29 million rides on it by 2031) or even if it did deliver those numbers that the increment of those riders over what the current system of express and local buses deliver is worth spending $1.6B on. What I do know, however, is that the value to Brampton of this line is suspect (and I am being very generous there) and in dealing with Brampton's priorities this is a backwards way to address them.
With the money already spent on the Georgetown/KW corridor we should be able to offer the GO service in 2015....so just do it. Brampton has shown its commitment to public transit and has built their express/mini-BRT system off of connectivity to the GO train stations...and is committed to further doing so...the combination is, both, affordable and appropriate for the city and its population.....the LRT does little (some might say nothing) to enhance or advance that and, from a Brampton perspective, has no business being a 1st priority item.
One only look at a recent quote from Mississauga's Mayor to figure out what this LRT is intended to do
BramptonGuardianMay 9 said:
This LRT is not even intended to extend benefits into Brampton and I suspect if there was a place to end it logically in Mississauga or if she felt that Mississauguans would accept a forced transfer within their borders that nobody would be all that concerned about getting it into Brampton or trying to figure out the logsitics of doing so.
I think Mayor Hazel is politically shrewed enough to realize her best chance of getting this project funded/built is if she can sell Metrolinx on the idea that it somehow solves transit needs in two large communities and is not just a Mississauga priority. I am reasonably sure that she "gets" that Brampton adds more value to this project than the project provides to Brampton. (that is an editorial).
If you are asking me should people oppose a subway if there are more affordable ways to bring rapid transit to a greater number of people....hell yes. This is not an exercise in making your "x" community gets its share/more than its share in the transit spending...it is (or should be) an exercise in getting the most out of the available transit dollars.
It looks like I am gonna "wear" this "stub" terminology....so I should be clear in what I meant....it is a stub in that it serves/touches so few people in Brampton....it has virtually no value to the daily life of the vast majority of Bramptonians.....will do virtually nothing to ease the commuting lives of most and will, certainly, not do much in terms of taking cars off of streets.
The fact that it bringing it up to Nelson street has the kinda "neat" network aspect of it connecting/touching 3 separate GO rail lines is a bit moot if two of those lines, most of the time, don't have any trains on them.
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doady
Senior Member
TOareaFan, you are starting to get annoying. I want all-day service on the Milton Line as well, but I am smart enough to realize that shit has nothing to do with the Hurontario-Main LRT. Metrolinx made the LRT a priority simply because the Cities of Brampton and Mississauga made it a priority. It has nothing to do with GO Transit. GO Transit isn't pushing for this, and it isn't paying $1.6 billion for this. Stop whining, seriously. This thread is about the LRT, not the GO Train.